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  Discussion on Any info on clicker training a horse?
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 11, 2000 - 10:32 pm:

Does anyone have any experience with clicker training your horse? I have recently purchased a clicker and the booklet (not the complete book) that came with it is not real explicit. I have now taught my horse to touch the target and we are working on backup but I am wondering how big a part the voice command plays in this type of training. My mare seems to catch on pretty quick and I am most comfortable giving her a voice command like "touch" and then the click and reward when she complies. Does that sound right? I suppose I should break down and buy the full version of the book. Anybody else try this?

Posted on Sunday, Mar 12, 2000 - 11:36 am:

Hi Vicki,
Clicker training is really operant conditioning - if you want to look up on the internet or the library look under both topics and you will see there is TONS of information available. You may find you don't need to buy a book...If you really really want to though, there is an excellent book called 'Don't Shoot the Dog' - Karen Pryor (1984). Don't be afraid of the title - she talks about using operant conditioning on everything from goldfish to roommates.

The purpose of the clicker is to mark the desired behaviour - the value of the clicker over voice is that (1) it is more precise in timing; (2) it is always the same - mostly meaning tone; and (3) it is non user specific (anyone can carry a clicker)

In my dog obedience class the trainer actually suggests using a voice marker in conjunction with the clicker. The reinforcement sequence becomes (cue)(desired response) 'YES' (click) (reward). This way the word 'YES" becomes the primary marker and the clicker a secondary marker.
So to answer your question, you can use words instead of the clicker or even in addition to the clicker.

The word you choose as your marker is important. It should be short and distinct ... and should ONLY be used in the training context. (this is why 'good boy' or 'good girl' is NOT a good choice!)

Remember also that clicker or not, you have about 4 seconds to do the reinforcement sequence otherwise you are wasting your treat and have lost a training opportunity.

Things I have learned:
- you don't have to ONLY use operant conditioning. Consider it one of many ways you can train.
- some animals (dogs in particular) learn a physical signal easier than a word command. I don't know if this is true for horses or not. So when you are training, your 'command' should first be a signal. Only once the signal is learned should you add the voice.
- sequencing of the command/response/mark/reward and timing of the reward is absolutely critical
- when teaching, break your commands down to the simplest task, then slowly build up
- understand the value of different rewards to your horse. Reserve high value rewards for the tough stuff and vary the rewards used.
- animals do not generalize eperiences. So a 'stand' command facing the animal is not percived as being the same as a 'stand' command from beside. Make sure, then , that you consciously build the link.
- use only short sessions (5 minutes) regularly - they are easier on both you and the animal.

Good luck!

Posted on Sunday, Mar 12, 2000 - 5:01 pm:

Thanks Cheryl. The book you suggested is the one I was thinking of. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that I should first figure out a physical signal (i.e. for "touch" I might point to the object) then when she knows that add the voice command "touch"? I hate to sound so dense but I really feel like if I am going to try to do this I want to do it right. I have been concentrating on using the voice command, then the click, then reward. I will add a "Yes" before the click. That makes sense. I wish my teenagers would respond as quickly as my mare to this kind of training. :) Maybe I could get them to clean their rooms. Thanks for the help!

Posted on Sunday, Mar 12, 2000 - 7:51 pm:

Hi Vicki,
You don't sound dense at all! (The first few weeks I started this stuff I thought it was the ONLY way I was supposed to train the dog. I DrOve my husband crazy with all the clicking...)

The signal vs. voice thing comes from dog training and may not apply to horses - but I will be surprised if it doesn't.

But yes, I am saying go with a physical command first. Think of the hand commands given to dogs - stay is usually a hand doing a 'stop'(hand outstretched palm facing the subject, fingers together pointing up) - that kind of thing.

Monty Roberts talks alot about using body language with horses - you might want to check that out to make sure you aren't mistakenly giving danger signals. For example, Roberts says splayed fingers are a major danger thing for horses - apparently it looks like claws. I don't know if that is really how horses interpret it, but I know my boy sure wasn't happy when I did it to him. According to a psychiatrist friend, many species have 'danger' shapes hard-wired into behaviour.

My dog trainer has also made the point that you have to consider how the animal will see the signal - the signal has to be 'large' enough to be easily perceived. (Someone in the class was asking for a sit with her hand sideways to her dog - the trainer pointed out that it was just too small a surface area for a dog to reliably pick up on...)

Oh, and be careful not to point the clicker at the horse - it then gets interpreted as a cue...Keep it in your pocket (change sides) or hang it around your neck or hide it behind your back (change hands).

You know, maybe you should get the book - Pryor actually talks about how to use operant conditioning to get your 'roomate' to clean up his/her stuff in 9 places! There may be hope for your teenagers ;-)

And to give credit to my wonderful dog trainer, her name is Cheryl Smith from Kemptville Ontario
(Canada)

Cheers,
Cheryl

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 14, 2000 - 4:22 pm:

Vicki

FYI, If you search the old discussions I think you will come up with some earlier posts on clicker training - I know I have seen some posted in the last year.

Also, there is a gal in the Kerrville Texas area that uses clicker training with horses, and I believe she even teaches a course on it in the local community education program. So you are not alone in the horse arena.

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 14, 2000 - 6:18 pm:

Alexandra Kurland has written a book on clicker training horses, specifically. She's got another in the works. She has done this under Karen Pryor's guidance.

Alexandra's web site is: https://www.crisny.org/users/kurlanda/

Hope this gets you going. The nice thing about clicker training is that you don't do any harm if you make mistakes - your critter just gets an extra reward, LOL.

For the horse, I use a tongue click - I stick my tongue on the roof of my mouth and pull it away, making a clack sound that is different than my verbals to move forward.

The key to any "click" is that it is easily done and very consistent in its tone. Words are a bit fuzzy in that area.

Good luck. Let us know when your horse is fetching, cones GRIN.
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