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Discussion on Head down while ridding
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Member:
Rhondal
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Posted on Friday, Jan 13, 2006 - 10:46 am:
My daughter has ridden Valentine a few times before buying and he's done great, now she's had had a couple outbursts (wanting to canter without instruction) out from him that has really frightened her to the point she wants to get off I have talked her into just walking him for awhile then get off.
I have noticed that he started to hold his head way down before his outburst what does this mean? I'm starting to second guess buying him I know bonding doesn't happen over night but I'm afraid she is losing confidence in riding him.
We have decided to start lounging him to get some of the energy out of him before riding hopefully this will help.
We would like to work with him more but the weather doesnt permit it.
I just hope I didn't make a mistake.
Thanks in advance.
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Friday, Jan 13, 2006 - 11:33 am:
How long has your Daughter been riding him? Sounds like he is pulling the reins out of her hands or loosening the contact. So he can do as he chooses.If he gets away with asserting himself it will lead to more things that he will try and do. How old is your daughter? Does she have the strengh to keep the reins from being pulled.
The rest reminds me of my first horse my parents bought me. . She was great when I first started riding her untill she started testing me. She was a horror. bucking taking off rearing. Not a nice horse at all. My parents faced a similar delema. They got a very experienced rider to ride her and remind her of her manners before I rode her. It worked for us. When I had my confidence back (PS I did not like my horse) I did not need the other rider any more and I had her till she died. She was my best friend. What about a trainer or instructer for a little while till the horse stops testing her.
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Member:
Lilly
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Posted on Friday, Jan 13, 2006 - 1:22 pm:
I wonder if it would help to lunge the horse in sidereins. Kind of remind him where his head should be.
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Member:
Rhondal
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Posted on Friday, Jan 13, 2006 - 1:30 pm:
She hasn't been riding him for very long at all. And she doesn't have the strength to get his head up and I think he knows it. She loves the horse but I'm beginning to think he's to much for her. I just don't want to give up.
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Member:
Rhondal
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Posted on Friday, Jan 13, 2006 - 1:36 pm:
We still need to get the stirrups up higher so she can stand she doesn't have enough bend in her leg so I don't know if that could be the problem.
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Member:
Miamoo
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Posted on Friday, Jan 13, 2006 - 1:40 pm:
Pulling his head down can be a precurser to bucking. It could also be the horses way of saying let go of my head you are holding me too tight. The problem is the way you would deal with one would be just exactly the opposite of what you need for the other. You need to get someone with more experience to either ride the horse or watch the horse being ridden and figure out why the horse is pulling down the head.
Bottom line - If your daughter is not feeling safe and you can't figure this out quickly, find another horse. Sitting on 1000 pounds and feeling frightened is a perfect way to get her scared of riding if not hurt.
Ella 
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Friday, Jan 13, 2006 - 2:32 pm:
Ditto, Ella. It seems like there are some very basic issues that need to be addressed in your situation before you move further and before your daughter gets hurt. If it were me and I could do this (sometimes people live in an area where trainers aren't that accessible and you're trying to figure this out yourself without the right "tools"), I'd find a professional or very experienced horse person who can read your horse like a tea leaf, get on and ride him, and give you a baseline from which to operate. My daughter almost gave up on riding because I had bought her a horse that was way too much for her. I didn't know any better at the time and we were just very, very lucky that no one was hurt. I had a good friend who DID know who took the horse, worked with him a bit, sold him for us, and then helped find something suitable.
You mentioned bonding. If by this you mean forging a friendship with the horse that will mean he is easier to handle because he "likes you," then please get some basics on equine psychology from some good videos/books. Everyone has their favorite. For ease of understanding the equine mind and what a horse responds to, Clinton Anderson explains it clearly. (There are lots and lots of others, but I don't want to overwhelm you!) Start with his book if you can't afford the videos...Amazon often has it used at a cheaper cost than new.
These are just a few things to think about doing. Please be careful, and let us know how it goes.
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Friday, Jan 13, 2006 - 2:34 pm:
Oh, and one more thing. If the horse is at a level above your current needs, IT IS OK TO GIVE UP. Giving up is often way, way smarter than getting hurt.
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Jan 13, 2006 - 5:59 pm:
Please have someone else ride him, in fact more than one experienced rider even. Watch how he is ridden and how he acts. Listen to what they suggest, and don't get caught up in "this is the only horse for her". If he's acting poorly, he's too much horse for her level of riding if she can't correct it.
If she has had riding lessons, have her instructor ride him and watch your daughter ride him if the instructor feels he's safe for her after his/her "test" drive.
My daughter is just about 12, and I have my heart in my throat watching her at lessons riding a 16 hand Dutch Warmblood!!! But I trust the instructor (it's her personal horse) so it's been a great experience for my daughter. And when we go horse shopping this spring, this wonderful lady will ride any horses we are considering for purchase. I won't be able to pick a horse for her based on her level of riding, it would be on my level of riding.
I can't stand the thought of my precious daughter, or yours, getting hurt....please be careful!!!
And Terri's advice is great!!
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Member:
Dsibley
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 14, 2006 - 9:42 am:
I agree...get another opinion on the horse, and be careful! My 17.2 Appendix will be for sale next month. He has been with a trainer since May. Kevin has no problems with him...beautiful head set, wonderful gaits, starting small jumps, and the horse is breathtaking.
But, beauty is as beauty does...I took him for a trail ride last weekend and thought I was going to die. He bucked, shook his head, threw a hissy if he wasn't in front. Lots of time to think about this on the trail ride led me to the same conclusion. There are many horses out there, and although I want to own them all, I want to be alive to do it. Baron needs someone who is much, much more experienced than me. And climbing on him on a trail ride is durned near impossible. I need oxygen when I'm up there!
Selling him will break my heart. But I'm afraid keeping him will break my....!!! So, if you know of anyone who wants a gorgeous, recalcitrant horse, he's 1/2 thoroughbred, 1/2 QH and 1/2 jackass hehe.
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Member:
Maggienm
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 14, 2006 - 11:16 am:
Rhonda, first and foremost get someone else, more if you can, to ride the horse. I forget if you mentioned in your first thread if you said what discipline the horse is trained in and what your daughter is getting lessons in. Western or English.
Sometimes when I ride a "western horse" they remind me to give them more rein by pulling their head down.
Let me encourage you that while you may regret buying this horse you have learned some valuable lessons. If you do decide to move him on; thank him for his time, sell him, and positively anticipate getting a more suited mount. There is nothing more frustrating for a rider than a horse they can't ride confidently and nothing more fun than to ride a horse who is willing.
Again I congratulate you on your involvement and care.
Your daughter will bond easily to a horse she is not afraid to ride.
Idea....is there a coach, advanced Pony Clubber, or someone (with the right experience) who might be willing to 'borrow' him for a year or so. Maybe after he has another solid year of so and your daughter has also they might work together.
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Member:
Maggienm
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 14, 2006 - 11:43 am:
Diane, I was in a simular situation some time ago. Did you talk to the trainer about the problem? Have you asked yourself all the usual questions? Did your trainer ever ride your horse outside the arena? Was this the first time you rode the horse after he came home? Did you ever go watch a session? Have you considered having the trainer watch you ride or take some lessons with a different coach.
I feel for you.
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Member:
Dsibley
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 14, 2006 - 6:07 pm:
Baron ran over me in May trying to go back outside. I ended up in the trauma center after he clocked me in the head and tap=danced on my chest. Two cracked ribs and a horseshoe-shaped bruise on my temple made me decide to send him away. He had always had horrendous ground manners, (I bought him in January last year), but he was really getting worse instead of better.
The trainer knew his history, and set about making him safe. Baron is an angel around Kevin...he even has his 4H kids handle him. I ride him there, he is usually pretty good, but one day last summer he bucked several times in the outdoor arena.
I try to go and get him almost every other weekend for a trail ride. He is always very good on the trails. I even took him to Shawnee Forest for a three-day ride. I would never have taken a questionable mount there...way too dangerous. He was the only horse out of twelve that didn't act up in some way!
This incident last weekend was totally out of the blue. He has never bucked on the trails, and never bucks for the trainer. He suggested maybe the saddle didn't fit, and maybe that is the reason.
At any rate, I think I will give it a couple of weeks or so, and take him out again & see how he does. I just wonder if he's being used to his potential. And when my barn is done, he will have had nearly a year with a trainer, who rides him six days a week! He should be way better than he is.
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Member:
Rhondal
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 15, 2006 - 1:48 pm:
Thank You all for all the feedback. We are still pondering over things that we could possibly change to help the situation. My dad offered to come and take him in the woods and so fourth to see how he reacts to different things because it has been such a long time since he's been off the property.
I'm looking at two different saddles right now that I think will be a better fit for him and her one is a circle y and the other is a tex tan.
I've heard allot of horror stories about TB since I've gotten him I just hope he doesn't turn out like one of the stories. Like I've said in the past he is a great horse to be around as far as being gentle when you are around him brushing him, cleaning his hooves or just being with him in the pasture he seems to be willing when you put the saddle etc. on him so I'm hoping this will be a happy ending and we won't have to get rid of him but if that happens it will be for my children's best interest.
Wish us luck I know we will need it.
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New Member:
Muffi
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Posted on Monday, Jan 16, 2006 - 11:31 am:
I ride english - but my trainer goes "both ways" one of the things that she uses may be of benefit for your horse putting his head down. It's a round loop. Trainer - Linda Tellington-Jones (www.TTouch.COM) has these things - it's looks like a lariat loop that you use on the horses neck and hold it with the reins. If you have issues with him DrOpping his head low you hold it up some and it doesn't hurt them but will remind them that they need to bring up their head some. I've used it in the arena with great success.
I have a head DrOpper that used to do little bucks too. he's big but not quite like your 17 H giant. (16.2 H) you may want to try this on him too. when I trail ride, I have to put my horse in a ditch to get back on the stirrups are so high...
But I agree with the tread on one thing. It this were my daughter - I would be very careful on the horse I bought for her. Get an older more ready made horse to build her confidence, you horse may be "pretty" and an Nice boy, but if you are afraid to ride him he knows. He is probably wondering what you are afraid of then he gets afraid too. It's geometric after that. and very hard to control. confidence begats calm which will better create a good riding mount.
What ever you chose - look in to that TT-ring - it works. and good luck.
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Member:
Rhondal
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Posted on Monday, Jan 16, 2006 - 1:13 pm:
I rode Valentine today for about 30min or so I havent ridden for about 20 years, so it's taken a little to get used to again. I did figure out a few things when riding him I do now think that Kaye is using to tight of reins and I also noticed that when you don't fit right in the stirrups you really don't have as good as control so we are still working on that I got them as far up as I can without cutting into the fenders.
We used a different bit, the solid one without the break in the middle can't remember what there called that seemed to help as well.
I only trotted him because I'm a big chicken and I'm trying to get used to the feel for him so I'm taking it slow I do however think we are coming closer to a resolution.
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Member:
Qh4me
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Posted on Monday, Jan 16, 2006 - 5:10 pm:
Rhonda,
I echo everyone elses comments, but if a trainer or someone more experienced to ride him is out of the question, what about getting your daughter to work on the ground with him.
He has to respect her and understand that she is the boss. It is much safer to be working on the ground, than up in the saddle.
Just make sure he obeys your daughter. Lunge him and make sure he changes directions when she tells him, when walking him, make sure he stops when she stops, if he doesn't, make her back him up 5 or 10 steps. Make sure if she moves towards his back end, that he moves his back end away from her. If she goes to get in the saddle and he moves, get off and back him up. Do this until he stands perfectly still while she mounts. Things like that has helped me.
I have a mare, and she pushes me all the time. She needs 5 minutes of ground manners, not necessarily lunging, before I get on to ride. Walk around, stop, back, stand, etc. She is an angel and knows who is boss before I even mount.
I do all my ground work with a rope halter.
It can be fun too. When my step daughter started taking lessons, for the first 5 or 6 lessons, the teacher made her work on the ground. Just to gain the respect of her horse.
Just a thought. But please be careful
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Member:
Maggienm
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Posted on Monday, Jan 16, 2006 - 7:27 pm:
Yes Shawna , very good point. It is amazing how much difference some ground work can make in how a horse behaves under saddle.
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Member:
Rhondal
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 17, 2006 - 10:08 am:
We are still in close contact with the previous owner she has been helping as much as she can.
We are going to start the ground work asap I sure wish it were spring
Thank you all for all the information I'm glad I came to this forum. I will keep you updated on our progress.
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