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  Discussion on Unbroke and conditioning
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 27, 2000 - 11:21 am:

Hello to all,
I have a QH mare and she has never really had any type of conditioning done with her. I have started her and have ridden her many times but, she seems to be get fatigued very easily.
-work her in the round pen 3-4 times per week.
-work is 10 -15 minutes at the walk and trot
-this is done 3-4 times(i give her rest periods)
-I increase time by 5 min. every 2 weeks
My question is...is this to much or too little for a horse just starting out?
I want to make sure she has good strength in her back before I start riding her again.
I have also started adding some weigh to her as we work in the round pen. First just the saddle, then about 5 lbs. per week.
She has a tendancy to buck when things are bouncing around on her so the weight I added so she would get used to this. Is this a good or bad thing to do. The first time I added the weight she bucked for three laps around the round pen then stopped. The next day she thought about it but did not buck.
Any ideas or comments are welcomed!!!
Dawn M.Rutz

Posted on Thursday, Apr 27, 2000 - 12:21 pm:

Hi there Dawn,

It sounds like you are really thinking ahead and trying to get her off to a good start. I have some thoughts, but it's hard to offer any suggestions without knowing a few more things, such as How old is she? How large is the roundpen? What type of footing is in it? I'm not sure I understand the workout schedule either---you work her 3-4 times per session at 10-15 min (30-60 min per day)? What type of "weight" are you using and is it balanced on both sides? I'm not sure it's good idea to leave it unsecured where it'll bounce.... even five pounds could create soreness and it'll most certainly cause a tensing of her muscles with each bounce.
Have you thought about conditioning her by riding her out, or has she shown evidence of soreness when you've ridden her?

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Amy Coffman
Painted Moon Ranch

Posted on Thursday, Apr 27, 2000 - 3:56 pm:

Hello Amy,
She is coming up on six. Here is her background:
-Was raised from birth by inexperienced people
-learned to dominate people
-was sent to training for ground and halter work and lounging
-was riden 4 times and threw them each time
-was taken to Sierra College for classes
When I bought her a year ago this is what we worked through
-respecting space(she would walk all over you)
-picking up her back feet(would threaten to kick)
-being able to enter the pen with food or while she was eating(would and still does turn her rear to you and ears pinned and threatening head gestures)
-would pin ears and try to bite while leading
-being able to brush her tail
-saddling(would pin ears and kick
-mounting bite, ears pinned and would kick
-dismounting(same thing, ears bite and kick
-lounging(would rear at first to try and get the rope, then she would charge
-Now my problem is when we are working in the arena she does fine for a few minutes and then her head cocks to the left and down and she first goes up with her front feet and then bucks like mad!!! All of these things she has learned and I have, over time, stopped the behavior. I think I meantioned it (if not I'm sorry) that she has bucked off everyone who has ridden her. If they had any problems with her they put her away. I had almost given up and sent her to auction!! But wanted to give her another chance. The reason for auction is, She can and is very nasty at times and would hate for someone to get hurt!!!! You have to be on your toes all the time and expect everything from her!!
My round pen is a bit short of 90 feet. I am getting some new footing soon. Right now it is about 2inches. She wears sports medicine boots front and rear plus bell boots. I work her for ten to 15 minutes and let her rest for 15 min. I do this three to four times a day, but only 3-4 days out of the week. I had a problem with her dehydrating last year. I have switched her back to oat/grass hay, as I had heard on this site that alfalfa required more water intake.
I have saddle bags thrown over the seat area, they are not flomping on her but much simulating the riders movements while riding. They are five lbs weights with foam stuffed around them. I cannot ride her at this time because of the bucking. I have the saddle bags tied down in every which way to prevent them frommaking her sore( I think) Most of the work is done at the walk and a slow jog) Is ther a better way to simulate weight and the rider??
Have you ever had a horse do this??? When she does go to buck I turn her in the opposite direction. If I try to reprimand her in the mouth( she is very sensitive and responsive) She has no quams about going over backwards!! This I don't want. Any suggestions there?? I have her in a long shank snaffle(identicle to the one John Lyons uses). No tie down or running martingale, although I do have them.
Hope to hear from you again!!
Dawn Rutz

Posted on Thursday, Apr 27, 2000 - 11:05 pm:

Wow, Dawn, you've got a lot of things to think about!
It sounds like this mare has got A LOT of stuff going on but she's definitely lucky to have crossed paths with someone like you who wants to help her. From what you've told me of her history, through no fault of her own she's not had a very good start in life. Still, when they end up with the right folks, they have an amazing capacity to overcome.
I'm going to qualify this by saying that of course, it's hard to say anything for sure without seeing her, but from what you've told me it sounds like she just needs to be completely started over. This may be what you're doing already. Does she buck with the saddle by itself, or only with a rider? How is she with grooming, or gentle sacking out with a lead rope? Can you rub her with your hand everywhere? If she pins her ears, raises her head, switches her tail (or gets a kink in it), moves around, etc, she's telling you she's not ready to move on to the next step yet. Forget that she's six and don't let anyone pressure you into thinking that matters. It doesn't. Give her the same slow, incremental, considerate approach you would a yearling or a two-year-old. If you can get her soft (all the way to her eyes) for all the ground handling you do, my feeling is that her need to buck will subside, if there's no physical/saddle fit problem. You're going to have to break the whole process down into tiny steps, though.
I did have a filly once who had been in a wreck the first time the people saddled her---even though she had had extensive groundwork it traumatized her so much that when I first had her you couldn't even rub a hand-towel on her shoulder. It took a lot of slow, little steps over a period of months to get her expression soft again, but I never did cause her to buck. I'm of the opinion that it's better to bring them along slowly and never give them a reason to buck, than to push them through it to "get it over with." These bucking sprees are not fun, I don't believe, and I'm pretty sure your mare was not enjoying herself any when she bucked those folks off. That's a frightening deal for a green horse and shows a lack of consideration on the part of the trainers who were responsible for her.

So, how is she with the ground stuff now, and with saddling? Does she stay soft and still or do you sense any tension? If you feel like she's okay all the way through the saddling process, you might consider just spending some weeks *leading* her out at a walk. Go exploring in the pasture, and let her just carry the saddle without giving her a need to buck. Maybe only lead her around for a few minutes at first. Or does she erupt into bucking from the walk? You also might consider just letting her wear the saddle while she eats a meal (not loose in the stall though).
Re your snaffle, that's a great choice. I think your instinct not to use a martingale or tiedown is a good one---that would only make her feel more confined, which would make her feel more like she needs to buck.
It seems to be that the more sensitive the horse, the more incremental you need to be. But the flip side is they make the most responsive/awesome horses later! Anyway, I know this is vague, but I hope some of it will be of help.

~Amy Coffman
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