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  Discussion on Bit for a horse who locks it in her teeth
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Posted on Monday, Jun 5, 2000 - 10:13 pm:

Hi, I have a 12 yr. old TB mare who is still green (she was turned out to pasture most of her life). She's been doing really well, and hasn't been rejecting the bit at all. I currently have her in a full cheeck snaffle with a flash noseband. Yesterday I was riding her and she bolted and locked the bit in her teeth. I was helpless and she finally got me off. I would like to know if there are bits that are especially made to prevent this, or if I should tighten the flash some more (whats too tight?). I leave about a tight fingers worth of space between her cheek and the flash. I was told that a kimberwicke might be useful, but I would like more opinions to help me decide. Thanks! This is the first time she did this and I want it to be the last!

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 6, 2000 - 1:22 am:

Before you put your mare in a more painful bit, you must think about WHY she bolted with you.
Horses bolt for various reasons, not just for naughtiness.

Reasons could be :

- pain [in mouth, or due to saddle fitting badly]
- taking her out alone, away from friends and known surroundings
- fear
- harsh treatment from rider

When did you last have the dentist? Are you sure her teeth are 100%?

Are you sure her saddle fits her to perfection? Are her feet fine?

You stated that you already ride her in a flash noseband - these in themselves can be very severe and worry many horses. Perhaps just a cavesson noseband might make her happier.

Are you a very experienced rider, with good hands? This is very necessary if you are going to experiment with strong bits, as you need a very good, balanced and independent seat.

I would suggest you check everything out, perhaps have some lessons with a really good instructor, and ride her in and around home before putting her in a stronger bit. A kimberwick is often used for hunting by children as it is very strong, but a green TB shouldn't really be put in one of those if you can possibly settle her by other means.

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 6, 2000 - 6:41 am:

Hello, Mario and Alexa.

I agree wholeheartedly with Alexa's advice, and strongly suggest that you have everything checked out, Mario, to eliminate pain, but I also want to add something which appears to be overlooked:


Many horses, and particularly TBs have a low palate, and in these instances a bit with a single joint in the middle will strike the palate if the rider takes a pull (as the rider would do, if the horse became tense, or bolted). A flash noseband would exacerbate this, as it prevents the horse from opening her mouth to escape the pain of the bit on the palate. Remember that, as a flight animal, a horse's instinctive response to pain is to run away. Could it be that you perhaps "took" too much contact, and that is what caused the horse to bolt. Then, when she bolted, your instinctive reaction would have been to hang on, and as an "into pressure" animal, your horse would have leaned against you even more.


When you have checked for pain and either eliminated it or treated it, I would suggest that you try a double jointed snaffle for your horse. The French Snaffle is very mild, as is the Dick Christianson. Please to not try a Dr Bristol unless you absolutely have to. If your mare is prone to "snatching and running" then I would not suggest that you use a straight bar, which is easier for her to hang onto.


Schooling is the obvious answer, as it will make your mare more receptive to quiet aides, body cues as opposed to hands. And if she bolts again, please try not to panic. Sit up, sit quietly, use lots of back and squeeze with your thights, and gently give and take on the reins, first one side, then the other (not a hard see-saw) to try and get her to soften through her jaw. Take not of what you are doing with your calves. Many riders grip with their calves when they panic - this is her cue to go faster. Turn her in a circle if you can, to stop her from getting too far away, and praise her if she gives you so much as a millimetre with her mouth. Remember, this is new to her. For a while, you may want to ride her in a loosely-fitted running martingale, to prevent her getting her head too high, where you will have no control and also, more importantly, to give you a neck strap. If you can let go of the reins and grip the neck strap for the first few strides, you will probably find that she is not gripping the bit as hard when you take the reins back, and you can then start bringing her back to you.

It is very scary to be on a bolting horse, but I believe that it can be cured through kindness, patience, and by paying attention to what your mare is saying to you.


Good luck.

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 6, 2000 - 6:44 am:

Oops, forgot to say that I agree with Alexa re the Flash noseband. A flash will exacerbate any pain which a horse has if her palate is low, and a cavesson is therefore better. In any event, a flash is a bit of a "nothing" noseband - neither DrOp nor cavesson but rather something in between with little or no effect. If your mare crosses her jaw, then a grackle would be more effective, and do less harm, but remember that it is illegal for dressage and, in any event, most faults of this nature can be cured with correct schooling in a comfortable bit and a cavesson noseband.


Take care
New Member:
Tiffney

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 17, 2005 - 3:05 am:

this may seem silly but honestly there are many different names for some very popular bits can someone please explain what a broken bit is and how well it works
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 17, 2005 - 6:37 am:

Hello Tiffney,
Broken bits are jointed in the middle of the mouthpiece.
DrO
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 17, 2005 - 11:33 am:

. . . and they may have one or more joints, Tiffany. Solid mouthpieces can be straight or shaped with a port (or curve) of differing heights. Sometimes there is a "cricket" or roller inside the port. If the port is extremely tall with a solid "hood" on it, then it is called a spade bit.

Semantics here . . . There are only two kinds of bits (not counting hackamores that don't have a mouthpiece) and they are snaffles and curbs. When I was a kid, I was told that broken mouthpiece bits are snaffles. Wrong. Both snaffles and curbs can have broken OR solid mouthpieces. (Don't be fooled by the term "Western Snaffle" often seen in catalogs.) All snaffles work on a DIRECT rein principle. All curbs work on a leverage principle and have shanks and curb chains or straps.

In Western riding, I often see curb chains on ring snaffles. They don't apply any pressure when pressure is applied to the reins, and they don't make the snaffles into curbs. I believe they are to keep the bit from slipping through the horse's mouth if the rider gets into an argument with the horse. In English riding, cavesons, figure-8's, DrOp nosebands are used to keep the horse's mouth closed on the bit so the bit can't slide through the mouth in an argument. I have found that a full-cheek snaffle with very long cheek pieces negates the need for a curb strat or noseband.

There are both English and Western style curbs, and the length and straightness of the shanks, and the tightness of the curb chain/strap, and the type of chain (single link, double link) and height of the port all combine to determine the severity of the bit . . . and the most important thing to decide the severity of the bit is the level of "feel," amount of understanding and experience of the rider who is using it.
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 17, 2005 - 6:50 pm:

Holly gives an excellant and thorough explanation of curb vs snaffle bits. I can't tell you many times I've had arguments with so called "experts" who think any jointed mouth piece is a snaffle! And you'd think catalog descriptions would be accurate, but they only add to the confusion.

I recently asked my daughters riding instructor about the DrOpped noseband she was using on her mare. I said that I thought it looked really nasty, how mean to hold a horses mouth shut! Her reply was "is it any worse than a curb chain?" She thought the idea of a curb chain, or strap, was what was nasty!!

Guess I have to keep my mouth shut!!

Holly,

A kimberwickie, isn't that kinda both snaffle and curb? that's a confusing one!!
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 17, 2005 - 10:28 pm:

Kimberwickes and Pelhams can both be used as either snaffles or curbs. At one time, my pony had a Kimberwicke with a low port and curb chain, and though I never did it, I figured that I could make it into a snaffle bit if I attached the reins through the large opening of the D-ring rather than through one of the slots. I've ridden with both broken mouthpiece and solid mouthpiece pelhams and if I only use the snaffle rein, I am using it as a direct rein bit. Some "training bits" with long shanks, also have a place to attach the reins at the ends of the mouthpiece so they can be used as snaffles and then used as curbs as the horse learns to neck rein. (sort of a "two for one!" type thing) The thing is, you can teach a horse to neck rein off a snaffle, too . . . so I really don't ever feel that I need anything but a snaffle for the work I do with the horses.
Member:
Green007

Posted on Thursday, Aug 18, 2005 - 9:18 am:

Holly is right on with the differnt kinds bits! The only thing I want to add is that when you use one of those attachment pieces/bit converters that makes the "two for one" deal in the kimberwicke, you lose just enough of the direct rein access that you would normally get with a basic snaffle and at the same time you lose just enough of the leverage/curb action of the lower hole to make your aids come across to the horse really muddled.

Most people who use bit converters do so because they don't want to deal with holding 2 sets of reins, but in my mind it is better to go ahead and learn how to deal with the 2 sets of reins. The top rein is your snaffle rein, the bottom rein is your leverage rein. With practice, you can learn how to change between the reins when you are working your horse, depending on how much "whoa" or steering you need in a day.

I love foxhunting in a broken kimberwicke, as I can primarily use the bit as a snaffle by keeping the lower rein loose, but when the time comes I have that leverage rein at my disposal. An example that comes to mind is when a large group is going from a full gallop to a complete halt in a narrow strip of grass between two freshly planted fields. You really need your "whoa" to be solid if you want to keep the farmers happy, and the kimberwicke helps me do that! Like Holly, I only work in a snaffle at home, but I do keep the Big Gun bits available for hunting and riding cross country.
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