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Discussion on Size of the horse?
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New Member:
Silverlf
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 7, 2006 - 10:45 pm:
I've read over several saddle fitting sites and it seems to only discuss the shape of the back of the horse or the saddle. What about the overall size of the back of the horse? I have three horses a 12 hd, 14 hd and a 15 hd. As I understand it, I could use the same saddle on each if the shape of the back is the same. What about size/length of the back? My 12 hd POA has less rib and length than my burly Foundation QH (duh). I just can't make total sense out of what I've read. It seems the length of the back is important but I can't find anything substantial about it. How do I match the length of the back to a proper saddle as I compare types and brands? I'm concerned about buying a saddle and it bridges on the POAs back. BTW, I'm a bit suspicious of the "pony" saddles. Any insight would be helpful ...
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Member:
Dove2
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 8, 2006 - 6:26 am:
Scott, Welcome to the confusing world of western saddle fitting! I've been working on unraveling this mystery for over a year and am still learning! My 15 hh Paint has a short back. I have always looked for a saddle that is less than 27 inches long. My first saddle was a barrel saddle because they are much shorter. (It fit the back length well but I really couldn't use it in a w/p show.) The basic rule is to follow the horse's rear-most ribs up (at a slight angle towards his head). That should be the point where the saddle ends. The seat and the bottom of the skirt should be as level to the ground as possible. This will indicate whether the saddle is sloping down onto his shoulders and thereby pinching. You want to be able to slide your hand around the entire perimeter of the saddle and not feel an excessive amount of pressure anywhere.
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 8, 2006 - 8:48 am:
I made my short backed Arab's withers sore from using a too long of saddle on her. I didn't realize a saddle could be too long on a horse. I am still searching for a western saddle that will fit her and another Qtr horse I have. So far, the Abetta Endurance, and a big D saddle look promising. Dove gives excellant guidelines above. Another member reccommended the Big D, at least I think that was the brand. Call around, email saddle sites, ask questions. I don't think you will ever hurt a horse with too short of a saddle.
Good Luck!!
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Member:
Cpacer
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 8, 2006 - 3:18 pm:
Western saddle fitting has seemed a little vague to me too (assuming western is what you're looking for) and I also have a short-backed Arabian. I ended up getting a western saddle made for the breed, I think it's 26" long (made by Circle Y). The bars are angled specifically for the shape of Arabian bodies, but I've put it on a giant TWH and it seemed fine too.
To Dove’s point I think the round skirt saddles and pads are your best bet. 5 Star Products makes a round skirt pad that I think is only 28” long. I’ve lined mine with removable fleece for extra cushioning cause the pad is kind of hard against the skin.
Sounds like your horses may range in width from regular to full-bars, so there may not be one saddle that will fit all properly. Are there any custom saddle makers/fitters in your area? Maybe they could custom make one short enough for the little guy and wide enough for the big guy, then recommend pads for each?
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Member:
Ilona
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 8, 2006 - 7:53 pm:
I have a number of horses to saddle and the only solution I have come up with where one saddle fits all is a treeless saddle. Bob marshall makes a wonderful range of saddles. I have an Endurance Deluxe, and 2 standard Endurance Saddles by Bob marshall. They do sometimes show up on ebay. They are light and ensure a good balanced seat. All my horses love them and perform better with gait and temperament. They need to be used with a skito pad for weight distribution. I have used many saddles ranging from Stubben english saddle (stolen, I was spitting mad), barrel racing saddles, western, Australian Stock by Downunder, and by far the best is the treeless. My horses (9 of them) range from a 17.2h TWH who has a very long back and high withers, to a 14.2h Paruvian Paso with short, wide, flat back. All the treeless saddles fit all the horses.
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Jun 9, 2006 - 9:25 am:
All the treeless do fit the horses, lot's of endurance riders use them. But it was a Bob Marshall saddle that was too long on my Arab, so again, make sure the length is correct. As ilona says they do make many types of treeless though, and yes, they are absolutely the most comfortable saddle ever IMO.
I don't agree though that they need a special pad. I called and talked to a rep at Smith Brothers (the sister company of Dover...Dover is the English, SB the Western) and she said just a good pad with a wool backing, like the Professional Choice. I was all ready to order a new special pad and she talked me out of it. She did say though that if you horse had the higher withers with the hollows, you may need the pads with the special padding there.
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Member:
Vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Jun 9, 2006 - 12:06 pm:
I have an Abetta endurance saddle but it doesn't fit either of my Arabs or my paint horse. It gave one of the Arabs a back ache, necessitating two months off riding. The 15" "Big Horn" (with full quarter horse bars) fits both of my Arabs well, as per a certified saddle fitter I've employed.
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Member:
Dawson
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Posted on Friday, Jun 9, 2006 - 12:53 pm:
I cared for an arab/cross mare with the shortest back I've ever seen to this day. Her owner was an older slight built gentleman (130#) who rode her with a hunt saddle, the back of it was on top of her butt. She was ok with it, her was a kind gentle rider.
I currently have a work friend who's started riding again she leases various sized horses by the month and swears that her stubben saddle fits a broad 17H thor. the same as a welsh/shetland cross? I haven't seen these horses tacked up so can not say that her statement is accurate. In my head I picture it must be like an NFL football played wearing a ballet dancers leotard/tutu. 
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Member:
Dove2
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Posted on Friday, Jun 9, 2006 - 1:09 pm:
We seemed to have gone from western to treeless to endurance to English saddles. Were you looking for any particular style of saddle Scott? I find western saddles the most difficult to fit, even though they are represented as being "two sizes fits all: quarter horse bars or full QH bars." Not so!
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Member:
Vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Jun 9, 2006 - 9:04 pm:
Western saddles are the hardest to fit. What you can get by with depends upon the length of time you ride and how hard you ride on an on-going basis.
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Member:
Dove2
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 - 9:39 am:
I'm starting to think that, particularly for western saddles, there's a huge necessity, not only to understand saddle fit, but to understand saddle pads. I ended up using a built-up pad where there's extra padding in the shoulders allowing the saddle to be lifted up in the front, thus leveling the saddle and eliminating the excessive pressure on the shoulders. I plan to keep studying the various saddle pads, especially ones that have variable shims. The horse's muscles change over the course of a season so I feel it's important to constantly monitor how the saddle fits.
Also, it seems the trend of western saddle makers is starting to make the bar spread a bit wider. Whereas 6 and 1/2 was standard QH bars, some manufacturers (such as Circle Y and Reinsman) are going to 6 and 3/4 inches. The least consistent fit of the western saddle is the length, as Scott has discovered. So many saddles are way too long for our short-backed horses. I just purchased the new Circle Y Flex Trail saddle, and it's only 26 and 1/4 inches long. Even so, it does go a bit beyond the "preferred" last rib specification saddle length. One other criterion I was trying to find was a saddle that put my feet underneath me rather than in an armchair position. The easiest part of fitting a western saddle is to determine the proper seat size for the rider. Even the saddle sales staff can help with that. 
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 - 10:10 am:
Dove,
I agree with you. Western saddles seem to be terrible in regards to putting you in a chair position. I find the best is to get an endurance saddle. I have one old one and it is very comfortable that way. Unfortunately is has um, shrunk on me and I don't fit in it any more. One reason I like my treeless so much is because the stirrups are under me where I want them.
My husband and I have been discussing saddles and buying another one. It must be shorter in length, stirrups under us, and comfy for us and the horse. We keep going back to another treeless saddle for us.
I think Western saddle makers should spend more time on designing a saddle that is "correct" than that is full of silver which seems to be the case.
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Member:
Dove2
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 10, 2006 - 10:24 am:
Angie, Right on! If it weren't for the fact that I'd like to try my hand in the w/p schooling show ring, I'd definitely look at endurance saddles. However, the requirements keep us locked into some of the old ways. Times are a changin' though. Take a look at the Reinsman saddles, the Martin saddles, and Circle Y (part of Tucker). I found those to meet most of my criteria.
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Member:
Silverlf
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 11, 2006 - 11:25 pm:
Thanks so much for the discussion, I really appreciate it ... it gives me something to chew on ... OK, Dove ... I am looking for a western saddle to fit a 12hd POA ... I have a 15" Abetta and it just looks too big ... as in looks like I'm putting a pair of NFL shoulder pads on a 5th grader. My daughter rides him in 4H and would ride more if I was confident the saddle wasn't a problem. So far we've used a generous pad and snugged up the cinch ... works but I can't speak for the fit and comfort. It's not just a matter of being shorter backed than larger horses ... there's less width too. Can anyone speak to fitting a pony? I think part of the problem is adults rarely ride one of this size and therefore it doesn't get much scrutiny ... nor are there that many saddle makers serious about a pony sized saddle.
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, Jun 12, 2006 - 8:07 am:
Scott,
I incorrectly stated above the Big D saddles, it is the Big Horn brand. There is a 14" youth saddle that is made for a younger person. I would ask them for their suggestions. The site I mailed questions to was: https://www.horseandsaddleshop.com.
I asked them about fitting a shortbacked and smaller boned Qtr horse, and my size bottem half!
Also, use a breast collar if you are worried about the saddle sliding from side to side.
BTW, how do you like the Abetta saddle?
Why are you looking for an adult sized saddle for this pony if your daughter rides him? For you to ride him? Maybe something like the Natural ride Bareback would be helpful. They are inexpensive bareback pads, with a solid front so they don't slip. I have one and used it on my daughter's Shetland Pony. The stirrups are a little far forward, but it is o.k. for a temporarly saddle. (I also use it for ground driving, but that's another story)
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Member:
Silverlf
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 13, 2006 - 11:34 pm:
Angie ... the Abetta is just fine for the practical me. It's light and low maintenance plus I don't worry as much about it as I would leather. Down side is it isn't leather and doesn't sound, look, feel or smell like leather. So, there's no as much positive feedback.
Well, I'm looking for one saddle that will be fitted to the horse, a POA, and the little person. I don't want a saddle for any other horse or person. A 14" saddle would be a right fit for the little person riding but I have no idea if it would fit the 12 hd POA. Is it the right length for the back? How will it fit on his withers? Basicly, I'm trying to avoid buying a saddle and taking it back more than once. I am in the process of asking these questions to saddlers and we'll see how they answer it.
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 - 9:29 am:
Scott,
I have a youth sized Aussie style saddle, with horn. It's a 14" I believe, which is like a 12" Western. My daughter rode in it until she was about 10...would that help you? How old is your daughter, can't find her age in your posts. The saddle fit a shetland pony, and an Arab mare. I have no use for it and will sell it to you if it would work for you.
I think a child past 10 may be too big for it.
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Member:
Silverlf
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 - 11:01 pm:
Angie ... Thank you so much for the kind offer but you are probably right on the size question. She's 10 and probably needs a 14" Western ... I'm curious about what the saddler will say about horse size and fitting. No word yet ... I'll post it when available.
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Member:
Silverlf
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Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2006 - 8:09 pm:
Well, so far no word from the saddler I emailed. I still kept up the search and found an Abetta saddle (used) that fits the pony. The primary problem with the other saddle was bridging. The length of the saddle caused it to gap across his back. I found one that is 22 inches in length, it has a rounded skirt and it's a 14-15 inch seat. It works for both rider and horse at this point. Now she is riding twice a day and both of them are happy about it. He likes to get out and she does too. Thanks so much for the advice ... it was an education for me and then knowing what I was looking for in fitting the saddle. One had to come before the other and I really appreciate everyone who participates here on Horseadvice.com.
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 24, 2006 - 9:36 am:
Great news Scott!! I am glad you found something that works.
This discussion got me searching and asking questions also. Funny, most of the places I emailed did NOT respond to my questions though. Phone calls were better. At any rate, long story short, I tried my treeless, (that may be too long) on my Arab yesterday, only I put a piece of foam between the pad and saddle, as she has a very big dip in her back. TA DA!! She was very happy when I rode her, so now I am on to something here.
So, don't be afraid to try homemade methods if you run into any more problems, but it sounds like for now all is well for your daughter and pony.
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Member:
Dove2
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 24, 2006 - 10:20 am:
Glad to hear you found a solution, Scott. Angie, that's a good tip about the extra filler in between the pad and saddle. I've got my new flex tree saddle fitting pretty well, although I still sense there's a small amount of bridging. I'll try a small fleece pad in the center under the seat and see if that evens out the sweat pattern after riding. For folks gathering info regarding new saddles, a point I discovered from my new saddle is that the rider tends to sweat a bit more with the new saddles lined with a neoprene underside. The leather doesn't seem to breathe as well, but the leather is much more pliable.
I'm curious what the general consensus is regarding flex tree saddles. Traditionalists don't think much of them, but then they tend to be inflexible themselves (no pun intended!).
I'm happy to see folks starting to take the time to care about saddle fit. With proper saddle fit and good hoof care, the horse will be much happier to answer your requests while under saddle!
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