This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Training, Behavior, & Conditioning Horses » Behavioral Problems » Stable Vices: Cribbing, Weaving, and Others »
  Discussion on Stall walking
Author Message
Member:
Mbh851

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 7:37 am:

I have recently tried a beautiful mare who seems ideal for my intended use as a lower level dressage horse, but...she walks her stall. She is reported to have "soured" when her owners tried to move her up to FEI level dressage but is sound with a lovely temperament, and is a wonderful ride. I am torn about whether to consider her further given this stall vice. I'd be interested in the experience of others with this problem, particularly whether it could lead to other issues.

Linn
Member:
Christos

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 10:47 am:

Rumour has it that box walking is connected with tying up, Linn, this is why it is considered a serious fault.
I do not know the reasoning behind this, whether fatigue from box walking is causing it or the horse keeps moving in an attempt to relax its sore muscles. I do not even know if this idea is supported by any studies.
I remember a box walking TB who would tie up. But this could very well be coincidental, we can not draw conclusions from a single horse.
May be putting a note on the contract that she will be returned for a full refund if she is diagnosed tying up within three months is a good idea.
Member:
Amara

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 11:40 am:

she's stall walking because she's bothered by theenvironment she'sin... its basically a sign of stress.. its no different then cribbing or weaving, it just expresses itself differently... do you have any access to turnout? most horses that stall walk dont have the same neurosis when they are turned out-preferably a large area with constant access to food.. remember that the natural element for the horse is large areas and 20 or so hrs of grazing time/day.. anytime we change that we put stress on a horse... some horses adapt well to that stress.. some horses take it just fine until we add another stress-like pushing them too hard... horses dont develop good coping mechanisms like some animals do, so stress in one area can carry over to stress in all areas...
without a change in her environment or her ability to handle stress, these things rarely get better... even if you back off on her workload she's now developed a templated response to being locked up... in its own way it relaxes her (remember the saying "troubled minds move feet"), so she needs to move her feet to "chill out"...
if you have access to 24 hr turnout and only inside when you work her, you probably wont notice it...there are ways to show the horse how to adapt to stress and to change the templated response, but its fairly complicated and takes a heck of a lot of work on the owners part...

good luck.. if you can find the right environment she sounds like she could be a great horse..
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 12:05 pm:

Hi Linn, I agree with Melissa that if the poor mare was as overfaced as it sounds she was, then this is her reaction to it.

In addition to the excellent turnout suggestion, you might want to try installing a stall mirror. I started a thread on this a while back so do a search on "stall mirrors" and you should find it. There is recent evidence that stall mirrors can reduce vices such as stall walking, cribbing, weaving, etc. One of my horses who gets stressed quite easily is much improved thanks to her mirrors. Doesn't appear to work in every case but it certainly did for my filly and it was a fairly inexpensive fix.
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 12:54 pm:

My TB was a huge stall walker... and the worst was trying to clean her stall. Such a pigstye by the end of the day. it took twice the money, time and effort my other horses stall took.

I also had a problem with her tying up. She was an OTTB and should have been used to being stalled. Lots of turnout didn't help our situation...She also was a fence pacer in the field. Nervous, and flighty. And there was a time she was getting capped hocks from kicking in the stall too. Just not a happy horse in the stall. overall, she just wasn't a happy horse with me. But agree that it probably started out as a problem that i didn't solve, and then became a habit. Once a habit, its hard to break.

Don't know if these all go hand in hand. But like yours she was a dream under saddle if not pushed. The tying up episodes did stop though when i stopped the traiining. i suspected the trainer was too much too fast.

finally i moved her to pasture after the training ceased, so can't confirm christos suspicions...

With my horse and our experience, any horse that can't calm down in the stall has a problem. Not happy about something. It's definetely a red flag of something....

I would keep riding her. Watching her more in pasture, and in stall. and just take it slow...
Member:
Tuckern

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 1:28 pm:

Hi Linn,

I own a stall walker/fence pacer. I've had her for a little over two years. She paces when she's nervous, or these days, when she's bored. The only thing that calmed her down was having another horse with her that she could touch, and groom, and feel safe with. Where she lives, she has always been able to see other horses, but that isn't enough.

Her previous owners told me that she paced, but I was so impressed with her when I first looked at her and rode her, that I felt I could deal with the pacing. The first month I had her, she lost probably 100 pounds, even though I kept food in front of her at all times. She was so stressed out and nervous, she was just walking constantly. She literally walked a hole in the ground about 1 foot deep, the entire length of the pen.

These days, she is alot better. She is ridden 3-4 times a week (she loves it, getting out on the trail and seeing the sites). I have he in a large paddock, and I bought a companion for her. I see her pace occassionally, but it is mostly when the neighbor across the street is mowing the lawn, and she knows that she'll get some of the lawn clippings :0).

Linn, would you have the ability to turn the prospective horse out with other horses? I think that will be the key. That, and getting her comfortable with your routine, earning her trust, and letting her know that she is in a safe place.

Anyway, just my thoughts.
Nicole in New Mexico
Member:
Sully

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 1:34 pm:

I went to pick up my horse (who I had only seen twice before buying her in another part of the country) where she had been kept for 2 months after surgery. My sister and I also have other horses there and went to check on her 3 yr old. I noticed the horse in the stall next to his walking the wall. At the time, I thought a horse like that would drive me nuts! Well, turns out that was my mare! lol I took her home and put her in a stall at my barn, and she was fine. No walking and I could tell by how clean she kept her stall. When I put her in an outside paddock, the walking the fence line started. She was doing it when I left and came back a few hours later. Did help with her stocking up, but not what I want in a horse. Since then, I have put her out with another mare and she stopped. So I am sure it was caused by anxiety. A mirror might help or just being around another horse they like.

Sully
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 2:13 pm:

The horse I had as a teenager would do this .He would lose soo much weight. He was never stalled ever but would run or walk the fence. He was always paddocked in paddocks over 10 acres and always with other horses. I would never know what would set his episode off. He would be fine for months and something would trigger it.I always thought it was because we got him as a stallion ( he served mares) we gelded him as we did not think he was good enough for a stallion and he became mine. About the tying up.I never heard of that being connected to the walking and pacing of stalls or paddocks. He tyed up many times so severe I thought he was dieing (I was a kid). His spazms were so bad he could not move a step. It scared the daylights out of me every time.I also never knew why he tyed up because he was out in large paddocks 24 hours a day, he was a hot horse and I thought maybe it was his over excitment and cantering on the spot that did it. Instead of warming up he just wanted to go. Wow I learned another new thing today.
All the suggestion above sound great, good luck, Let us know how it goes and what works. hopefully it wont be like my horse was, though he was a good horse I had him over 20 years till I came to the US. He still acted like a 2 year old even in his 20s.
Member:
Erika

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 5:59 pm:

I wonder if DR. O has any comment on the tying up connection?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 10:11 pm:

Hello All,
I have not heard of a relationship between stall walking and tying up but an interesting thought as walking may relieve mild symptoms. But the question is easy to answer for individuals: have muscle enzymes run, if normal tying up is unlikely. Assuming normal muscle enzymes, Linn it is very hard to predict if this might worsen, improve, etc.... Evaluate as is and if you can manage this horse at pasture this may be a great deal, if worrying about your horse worrying in a stall is not for you, pass it up.
DrO
Member:
Canter

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 21, 2006 - 8:22 pm:

Linn, assuming that you would be bringing the mare home or to the barn of your choice where she'll be in a different environment,perhaps you could work out a short-term lease with the current owners, say 3 months or so. Then, you'll have the option of trying out everyone's great suggestions to see if it stops the behavior. If so, you buy the horse, if not you return her. If you do decide to go this way, make sure you carefully work out the terms of the lease (who pays vet bills, liability, etc)
Member:
Mbh851

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 21, 2006 - 9:19 pm:

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and support. I have decided to go for another look with my trainer and am inclined to give her serious consideration if it looks like a good opportunity in every other way. I will check out the tying up question with my vet when he sees her if I go that far. I had thought about the lease option as well, and will see if that is an option. I am free leasing a horse now and have been through the arrangements for insurance, written agreements and the like.

If I do buy her, I would definitely want to try the stall mirror, but I couldn't find the thread posted previously on that. Sue G, do you recall how long ago it was? I appreciate hearing all the other suggestions and experiences. She doesn't walk the fence and I do have the option to turn her out full time if that is where she is happiest. I will definitely let you know how things work out.
Member:
Wgillmor

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 21, 2006 - 9:59 pm:



Good luck,

Wiley
Member:
Imogen

Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 2:39 am:

Hi Lynn I have found stall mirror works well in lower stress conditions with my box walker 7/8 TB mare. It does not stop her if there is serious stress like another animal at the field gate calling for her but in general it seems to be better than valium! I made my own from stainless steel a few months ago. See the thread Wiley posted.

However, and this is just my hypothesis, no evidence, I think they work better with dominant horses who assume they are boss over their mirror image. Same mirror freaked out my filly, I had to take down the one in her stall.

Best wishes

Imogen
Member:
Mbh851

Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 10:12 am:

Thanks for the additional input. I am still having some trouble finding the stall mirrors discussion. The link took me to "Discussion on Learn from our mistakes in barn related accidents" which was edifying but I couldn't find anything on mirrors. I would love to get more information on the specifics: Types of mirror (non-breakable obviously), size, placement in stall (horse eye level I imagine). I suspect the sellers might even try it out as we proceed with trial rides etc.
Member:
Wgillmor

Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 10:53 am:

My mistake for not testing the link.

Go to:

Care for Horses » Tips and Tricks » 2006 Add New Care Tips Here »

and click on the discussion of stall mirrors.

(Evidently the HA web site doesn't give a separate link for every discussion.)

Wiley
Member:
Mbh851

Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 12:01 pm:

Thanks! I've looked at the discussion. It's great and not only covers all my questions on the mirrors but is very encouraging on their effectiveness for this problem. I'll close with my thanks to all for making this site such a wonderful resource.

Linn
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 1:07 pm:

Thanks so much for providing the info to Linn, Wiley.
Member:
Mbh851

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 28, 2006 - 9:33 pm:

Thanks again to everyone for sharing their experiences with this. It turned out that there were other issues with the mare so that I did not end up deciding to buy her. I did pass on the suggestions on stall mirrors to her current owners who were anxious to try that approach.

Linn
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC