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  Discussion on Frequency of competitions
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 27, 2000 - 8:42 am:

How often should young horses compete without risking too much stress on the legs?
My horse is a 4 y.o. Trakhener/Hanoverian who had not jumped before June this year when I bought him. His previous owner was training him in dressage so he was, and is, in good shape. He competed in his first jumper competition with my trainer in mid August, 100 cm (about 3 feet). In September it has been every weekend (Sat or Sun), and last weekend he jumped 110 cm (about 3'7"). My trainer says he needs the experience (the horse not the trainer) but I am afraid for his legs. I'm probably being overly cautious because my other horse is lame for a reason the vets can't determine.
So, how much is too much? Is 110 cm still low enough that I should not be overly concerned about his young legs?
Marcia

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 27, 2000 - 8:55 am:

Hi Marcia,

I can only answer based on what I have decided for my horse. He turned 5 this year and we started jumping. I waited to be sure that he had fully matured and that his flatwork was really solid. Next summer I plan to start showing him. I know many people do not wait as I have done. YOu need to be sure of two things when you start to show and jump:
1. that your horse is physically capable of handling the stress of repeated jumping
2. the horse can withstand the mental stress of instensive showing.

I know that you would hate to either make him lame or sour. I reached the decision that I did based on my long term plans for my horse (I do not intend to sell hime). I decided that I'd rather move slow while he's young so that he's less likley to develop problems later. It sounds in your posting that you are unsure and feel that it's too much. Trainer advice aside, it's your horse and you need to make the decisions.


My own 2 cents.

Teresa

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 27, 2000 - 11:36 am:

Marcia - you are correct to be worried about his legs. He was not jumped before June, and he's jumping over 3' in shows? That, IMHO, is not good for his mentality. He's still a baby, mentally, and because he's a warmblood, physically. You might want to get his knees xrayed to see if they have closed or not. If they haven't, I wouldn't do any more jumping, or at last anything over 2'6" or so. The more he's asked to do now, the shorter his performance career will be. I don't understand why your trainer says he needs experience NOW - he can get it later.

As I said, all this is my opinion - lots of horses are doing jumpers over 3' by the time they are 4, but I don't believe the same percentage of them are sound later as those horses that are brought along more slowly.

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 27, 2000 - 11:50 am:

Hi Marcia,

I would have to agree with Teresa as far as bringing them along slowly.

A lovely warmblood like yours won't be fully mature for another couple of years, and I would consider jumping 3'-3'7" fences as well as showing every weekend rather stressful mentally and physically for a 4-year old of ANY breed.

My trainer, who works extensively with warmbloods, introduces them to tack, ground work, and backing between the ages of 2 & 4 depending on their individual physiques and temperaments. From approximately Age 4 on she begins LIGHT flatwork under saddle, and wouldn't even think of progressing to the program your horse is on until she was absolutely sure of physical maturity. (Even then, I don't think she would work a horse that frequently at that level.)

Your trainer may feel that your horse needs the experience, but does he need so much so soon? There is a real possibility that all this early "experience" will just end up with you "experiencing" the heartache of having to retire a wonderful horse when he is still young and should just be coming into his best.

If I were you, I would seriously consider this trainer's knowledge, experience, and motives before allowing him/her to continue such a strenuous program with such a young horse. There are, unfortunately, too many so-called "trainers" who are more interested in their own ambitions than their clients, but - like Teresa - this is just my "two cents".

Good luck,
Bonnie

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 27, 2000 - 3:33 pm:

I know how hard it is to wait with a baby, and a smart baby with a good mind may trick you into thinking he's ready for a lot more than he is.
Just remember that patience now will be repaid with a longer working life later--and the harder you push in those first three or four years, the more likely it is that the horse won't stay sound long enough for you to enjoy it. Don't let an ambitious trainer ruin your horse.

Many people insist that backing at 2 1/2 is fine and regular dressage work at 3 doesn't do any damage--but how many of these horses are still sound by age 15, let alone working in advanced dressage, or showjumping, or anything?

By contrast, the SRS horses who are not backed until they are 4 are sound at 25 and even 30, and performing to the haute ecole well into their 20s. Tough, long-lived breed? Sure. But so are a lot of warmbloods. And like Lipps, they grow slowly. Your baby probably won't really be mature till he's 8 or 10 years old, and at 4 he's going to still be extremely immature. Don't be fooled if he's big, either. The sizier ones actually take longer to get it all together, and can break down faster than the smaller, more compact horses. A really big baby has all it can do to carry its own weight, let alone that of a rider.

Patience is the watchword here--as with all the rest of classical [and other] training.
Give your baby time to grow up. That's the best thing you can do for him. I don't mean just turn him out and forget him, but do take it slow, and go easy on the forced exercise.

Keep an eye on his joints. As a yearling, the ones that will show damage are the fetlocks; as a horse heads toward his first birthday, it will be the hocks and knees. By the time he's 2, the danger zone is the stifles--which is
why I truly do not believe in lungeing the young ones before they're 3. As for the mental side, just remember to keep things short, and always end on a good note.


Egon von Neindorff used to start horses when they were 4 years old, and some of the Renaissance and Baroque authors recommend to wait until the horse is between 6 and 8 years old; especially warmbloods who are bred so well nowadays
that 3 year olds often look like mature horses, but the joints, ligaments, tendons, and muscles are still those of a young horse.


If you go slowly, and look after him carefully, you will have a fit horse and years more pleasure than if you rush things now.

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 27, 2000 - 3:58 pm:

Alexa, you are so right. In addition to the info I supplied above, my trainer has several horses of her own in the 6, 7, 8, and 9-year old range that she is just beginning to do saddle-work with now.

The above info I supplied was my trainer's usual approach to horses brought to her for training, as that is the very bare minimum at which she will work with them. Unfortunately, just like some trainers, there are many owners out there who want a fully-trained, ribbon-winning, machine by the age of 5-6, and this she will not do, and has had to turn away a number of money-making opportunities accordingly.

Bonnie

Posted on Thursday, Sep 28, 2000 - 10:33 am:

Thank you all for your comments. I think both my trainer and I were excited about Vympel's potential, he placed 2nd at the last competition at 110cm. But I know your advice is good so we will take a rest for awhile and then start again more slowly.

He is such a beauty and has a really sweet and willing temperment that I would hate for anything to go wrong that could have been prevented with a little patience.

The x-rays are another good idea. I know that they have the capability here (Moscow) but I have only heard of x-rays being done when there was a serious problem, so it is not normal practice.

Thanks again.
Marcia

Posted on Thursday, Sep 28, 2000 - 7:19 pm:

Hi Marcia--May I say that I think you're getting very good advice from these postings. In my part of the country, it's so sad to see so many trainers who are interested only in performance; and consequently go too fast and too far with the youngsters who fall under their tutelage. These people are certainly good riders and certainly are good at getting a horse to do what they want, but are often abysmally ignorant about what it takes to keep a horse sound and sane over the long (or short) haul. Good luck to you and your baby.

Posted on Friday, Sep 29, 2000 - 10:56 am:

I second EveO's remarks. Some of the dressage trainers that I respect most, like Conrad Schumacher and Charles deKunffy, say that the biggest mistake owners of gifted athletes make is to ask them to do all they can from an early age, rather than pacing their training according to where they are in their development. They both say that a dressage horse should not start competing until they are 5 (unless they are in the "materiale classes"), and that they should not progress more rapidly than one level per year once they get past second or third level. They say that those that go faster are likely to burn out or suffer injuries before they achieve world class, but may make their trainers look really good in the meantime.

I have several young horses (and more on the way :-) ), and intend to stick with their advice.
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