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  Discussion on Which bit should I use?
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Member:
Dakotab

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 19, 2006 - 2:40 pm:

I have a 5 yr old Tn Walker in a Mullen bit. He has been good in it up to about 6 mo ago. He is now pulling to the opposite side when I cue him to turn. He will throw his head and stumble trying to get his own way.
I have a Myler Med. ported barrel which has been great on all our other horses. I have only had horses for 6 years. And they have been finished horses. So I have never changed a bit they have come with.
This one we have had since he was two. He was only under saddle for 6 mo. when I got him.He has been great. But recently he is testing everything he is asked to do. Also getting a little pushy on ground work, but we are making progress with that.
Since I have never changed a horses bit before I am not sure what is the best way to go about it. Can anyone offer me some help?
I must add that I am certainly no expert with horses.
Thank you
Hilma
Member:
Alden

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 19, 2006 - 3:33 pm:

I suggest you look else where, the bit hasn't changed so it's not the problem. There is a whole laundry list of other possible problems. You need to have his teeth checked, his mouth has been changing and there may be a problem now. Has his wolf teeth been removed?

Saddle fit, shoeing, feed.... Many things to consider, he's been growing and changing shape so the saddle may not fit right any longer, etc, etc.

Do you have a trainer to work with? Six months under saddle isn't very long and he is still very much in training. There maybe something you're doing, not realizing it, that is setting up him up to be resistive. If his stiff and resistive on the ground it's only going to be worse in the saddle. Sometimes a young horse needs to go back to the basics and get a ground work refresher.

When I change a bit I do it for positive reasons, ie a horse is ready for more sensitive or subtle team communication, not for more leverage or force.

Good day,
Alden
Member:
Amara

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 19, 2006 - 4:54 pm:

i completely agree with alden
i was taught this while getting me degree some years ago
"it is not what you put in their mouths it is what you put in their minds"

check over all the physical... then check over your training and riding.. you could be doing something with your body to cause a horse to resist as well...

while it is possible that some horses dont like certain bits because of the shape of their mouths or tongues, you usually notice their discomfort right away...

if i have to change a bit upwards to get more leverage or force i have done something very wrong and need to restart..

good luck
mel
Member:
Dakotab

Posted on Friday, Jul 21, 2006 - 11:18 am:

Thank You Melissa and Alden
I appreciate all the advise I get.
I just had his teeth done in April. I had the dentist check the fit of his bit, and he said it was fine. He started the acting up weeks after the dentist visit.
He has a short back and the only saddle that fits him is a treeless saddle, and it is the only one that stays in place going up and down hills. We have tried several saddles on him. He did get a sore back two years ago after a trip to Tn. We were using a saddle with a walking horse tree. Since we changed to the treeless he has had no bouts with a sore back.
My son rode him yesterday and he would not go over a bridge or into the woods for him. No matter how hard he tried, he told me he finally got off, lead him into the woods and got back on and he was fine. When he returned to the farm I could see Gambler was acting up again, trying to turn the way he wanted to go, so Scott took him on a penalty lap until he listened. He came in fine and stood still in the drive. I think you are right he needs to go back to some ground training to learn respect.
Thanks for the information about the bit I will keep him in the Mullen for now and work with him.
Hilma
New Member:
Nena

Posted on Friday, Jul 21, 2006 - 5:10 pm:

Hi Hilma. I agree, it does sound like a groundwork issue, not a bit problem. I am a HUGE fan of Pat Parelli's groundwork. You might want to check out the website (ParelliNaturalHorsemanship), they are really helpful in all areas. Also try the GaitsofGold website with Brenda Imus. You can join their chat room for free and get all kinds of great information. Good Luck!! nena
Member:
Dakotab

Posted on Saturday, Jul 22, 2006 - 6:02 pm:

hi Nena
I did join Brenda Imus site, thank you. I am looking into a trainer in our area. One girl thought he was barn sour, but he does not care if he is with his barn buddies or not. He is very independent.
I started with some ground work with him yesterday and he was perfect. He move where I wanted him, stop and stood,back on command, came to me with hand signals. He was perfect.
Love the little shit no matter what. But would love him more if didn't act up when he was ridden.
Thanks
Hilma
Member:
Christos

Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 6:29 am:

Do try a double broken snaffle, Hilma, there are good chances this problem is bit related.

With any solid mouthpiece which is not held in place by a curb chain or strap, when you apply a unilateral rein, the bit will swivel on the tongue and the opposite side will move forward. The bit hits against the corner incisors and greatly annoys the horse.

You may get away with this up to 4 1/2 years, when the corner incisors erupt fully.

Also, a solid mouthpiece without a curb chain sliding on the bars from a unilateral rein may be tolerated in a young horse, but he will complain as the canine teeth erupt, at 4-5yo.

This is the reason we use curb chains in curb bits, to prevent the bit from sliding on the bars or sitting at an angle in the horse's mouth, not to gain leverage as many people think.

To prevent a solid mouthpiece from sitting at an angle in the horse's mouth, both reins should be held equally long and on the same hand. This, of course, makes fine lateral control only possible on a horse that will bend from neck reining, weight and leg aids.

This is exactly the reason that a horse who works well on the curb only is considered to have reached the top of his training.

To sum it up: A solid mouthpiece is not meant to bend or turn the horse. It is only used to regulate the tempo while showing off that the horse does not need the bit to bend or turn.
Member:
Dakotab

Posted on Monday, Aug 7, 2006 - 12:00 pm:

Thank You Christos
I am sorry to get back to you late on this email but I was out of town.

Your information is great.I am using a curb chain on Gamblers bit, And know it is not to loose or tight. I haven't had time to ride him since I got back but I noticed.He is starting to grind his (front) teeth at times. When he is at the gate waiting for me or in the cross ties being groomed, but does not seem to be upset ,no swishing tail, ect. I haven't noticed any grinding when he has the bit in.

I am looking into a trainer down state, We do not seem to have horse trainers, but more riding instructors in our area. And since I am neither, I thought maybe this would be the way to go.

Advise is very much appreciated,
Hilma
Member:
Dakotab

Posted on Thursday, Aug 10, 2006 - 4:39 pm:

Christos
I rode Gambler today,My only problem was when we stepped down from a cement pad to the ground he thought it was a great place to sit down. And i mean sit down, he put out his front legs and actually sat down , I kicked him about 4 times and he got back up.This is the second time he has done this, Its really comical but he does not do anything mean or dangerous. We went for a 2 1/2 hour ride and I had no problem with him fighting me, or the bit. I am beginning to think maybe he is testing my son, because he can. So I now think maybe it is not a bit problem after all.
Member:
Dove2

Posted on Thursday, Aug 10, 2006 - 6:44 pm:

Hilma,
I'm not sure if it's the case with your horse, however, oftentimes when a horse sits, it's an indication of colic or intestinal distress. If there are no other symptoms, I wouldn't worry too much about it; just be aware.
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Friday, Aug 11, 2006 - 11:53 am:

One of my boarder horses, a very cheeky young Haflinger, loves to sit like a dog. No distress, just looks around and takes in all the action happening around him then when he's ready, gets up and goes about his business. He tends to do it most often after he's been napping in the sunshine.

When I first saw him do it, I was totally caught offguard but now it's just an everyday occurrence.

He's quite a naughty little character who keeps his poor owner on her toes with all his antics.
Member:
Dakotab

Posted on Friday, Aug 11, 2006 - 12:15 pm:

Sue
I have never seen this before except on TV.
He did this in Tn. on our spring ride. We were on our way back, and we stopped after gaiting our horses for a rest, and he felt the bank we were near was a perfect place to rest. So he did ! Yesterday it was before we went out to ride.
I know nothing is wrong with him. He just marches to the beat of a different drum.
He was wonderful for the whole ride, except when I ask him to step down a bank into a creek he refused until the other horse went first.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Saturday, Aug 12, 2006 - 10:47 am:

Glad to hear he has no problems with the bit, Hilma.

I have seen a couple of horses sit down, but for different reasons.

One was obviously itchy (the owner wouldn't let me deworm him) and the poor animal was dragging his a** on the ground. Literally, he'd sit down with hind legs spread and drag himself on the ground with his fronts. Hilarious, despite the poor boy's discomfort.

The other one was a very goofy horse who liked to lean back against the wall. A couple of times he forgot that the wall was not behind him and he fell on his a**. However, he stayed there, sitting for a while, so I am not sure this was an accident.
Member:
Fototrop

Posted on Saturday, Aug 12, 2006 - 9:09 pm:

Christos, Were you talking about a French link when you wrote recommending a double broken snaffle? I put a French link snaffle on my Standardbred gelding when I got him 6 years ago. All head tossing stopped. Even though he's very forward this bit is plenty and I love the way it doesn't hinge up in the middle and I can use each rein truly independently because of the double breaks. I'm not sure why anyone would use anything else. I just bought a double broken Level I Myler bit for my daughter's POA gelding. The same reaction, head down, quiet, calm and obedient.
Pam
Member:
Christos

Posted on Sunday, Aug 13, 2006 - 3:47 am:

Any double broken snaffle, Pamela, as far as the link is not sharp. A French link snaffle is very good, most horses love it.

I use an Aurigan KK Ultra eggbutt with a thick rounded middle piece, but that is because it was the only one I could find in a hurry at 6". Ridiculous price, around 100 Euro, but I had no choice .
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