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Discussion on Talk of the Anderson/ Levy show..
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 10, 2006 - 5:47 pm:
Stacy like you I tivoed the show.. I just sat down to watch it.. VERY interesting.. Ok on that note, I have to confess I sent my just three year old out for training in June.. This is a gal friend of mine that wanted a project, she just recently lost her Grand Prix horse and wanted something to do.. She asked me if she could start my filly.. She warned me that she does the backing very differently then what I am 'used' to.. I trust her and thought what the heck.. YIKES I watched her do all the stuff that Anderson was discussing on the show.. What I liked was the TIME spent with my filly, and the bond she and gal friend were forming.. She did all what Anderson was doing + more.. She had my filly jumping over barrels.. by just pointing.. I asked ''when are you going to ride her?'' it had been 8 weeks of ground training ONLY.. Her response.. She will tell me when she is ready.. I am very happy to say that when she got on my filly it was no different then when she was standing on the ground with her.. the filly just knew what the rider wanted.. there never was a buck.. ok a few bolts but nothing the rider had problems with , she just rode them out praising the filly for her foreword try.. If I had not seen this whole process, I would not have believed the results.. I WENT OUTSIDE MY BOX on this.. and am VERY happy with the results.. This filly with only 4 weeks of being mounted is doing training level / first level with confidence.. She is very flexiable,moves off the seat / leg easily..
I will very much enjoy watching the next few clinics on this subject..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Friday, Aug 11, 2006 - 6:24 am:
Hi Ann, isn't it enlightening, and humbling to realize we never have enough knowledge? This has been an "outside my box" year for me too, starting with studying to do my own farrier work(thanks to Horseadvice), and currently with an intensive review of equine musculoskeletal anatomy at the med/vet level. I have always known my career would require CME, and am delighted to understand that my passion for horses benefits tremendously from the same philosophy. I too am interested to see the next broadcast. I especially hope to see a discussion between the two professionals about the breaking over point - poll vs 3d or 4th vertebrae. I think if you train a horse to break over farther down in the neck, it must be awfully hard to put them back at the poll, but I have not seen enough of Anderson riding to know how he presents the horses when he is not teaching them something new. I wonder if there is a way to post questions to him via RFD? I will check on it... Stacy
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Friday, Aug 11, 2006 - 9:58 am:
You can find him at downunderhorsemanship.com
Kathleen
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 - 10:20 pm:
Part two was a hoot, at least the ending watching Anderson ride a dressage horse.. But I am skipping here.. The beginning when Anderson was showing the over flexing of his 3 year old to Ken Levy ( have any of you heard of him ?) then Anderson asked Ken how he flexed his dressage horse.. Levy does it moving.. not standing in place like Anderson does.. Levy flexes into the circle then counter flexes out of the circle, opening up the horses rib cage and shoulders.. What I thought interesting was when Anderson rode his 3 year old walk/ trot/ canter.. the horse's head was low but the whole body did not seem to be together in harmony . (that is the only way I can put words to it ) Was the horse on the forehand? Then Levy rode his horse thru the paces.. to me ,a dressage rider this looked more natural for the horse, and something I see in the pastures , horses at liberty..
Getting back to Anderson riding.. he said it felt like his teeth were being knocked loose sitting the trot..and thought the horse felt like he was trotting on a trampoline... I got a good belly laugh...
Anyone else see the program.. any western riders.. ?
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 - 6:59 am:
Thanks Anne,
Did the horses have equal amount of training and time under saddle were the ages the same? That might account for the Anderson horse not being as together as the dressage. Age and muscle and co-ordination I think would play a part. Oh how I wish I could have seen it.
Katrina
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 - 9:44 am:
Katrina, yes there was an age difference/ and schooling time difference in the horses.. Anderson's was 3, Levy's was 13yrs old... but the way of go was just so different regardless of the age... I am sure Anderson's horse would still be asked to travel with his head down level with his knees or lower at any age.. It just looked unnatural.. My horses are out in pasture, my young ones are out 24/7 and i have never seen them travel in this manner.. it was just very interesting..
Anderson gave an example of the way they want to collect a horses.. grant it he used his whip /or carrot stick... but he arched it saying the butt end of the stick was the hind end and the tip was the front end of a horse.. and the middle / bow was the back... he said when he rode he wanted the hindend down and the head down thus lifting the back??? He then showed what Levy wants when he rides... he bowed the whip but tilted it so that the hind end was lower then front of the tip.. still bowing the back... thus he said this is what Levy wants the hind end under with the shoulders lifted still lifting the back for the rider... hummmm
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots...
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Member:
Christel
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 - 10:31 am:
Ann, I watched it, the sound was off, as husband has to at least listen to his Texas Rangers play.
I saw poetry in motion as the dressage horse was being ridden by Mr. Levy.
I saw a young reining horse in training when Clinton rode his horse. The horse seemed to be behind the vertical, and a little overflexed- a little extreme. Many reiners are trained in the extreme in hopes when they show the extreme will level out- couldn't quite come up the words to describe that- hope that made sense.
They say reining is the western dressage, I assume the reason being is because reining has so many hard maneuvers involved.They are totally different, but I enjoy the comparison.
My husband commented, the dressage horse is doing very unnatural movements. When I explained to him (I am sure a green horn to dressage, know enough to be dangerous) that there are 5 levels to dressage and each level must be mastered before moving to next, he said, well it's obvious that is a powerful, strong horse to hop and bounce around like that- I laughed but he makes a good point.
Glad you commented on Clintons response to the trotting (since I had no sound)- I think it would jar every bone in my body, and compact the spinal column-lol- its nice to watch someone else doing it.
I think it is not fair to compare a 3 year old reiner to the obviously mature and graceful dressage horse, while the reiner is getting there he still lacks the maturity (mentally and physically) of the dressage horse.
Katrina, I believe the show will be repeated Sunday afternoon on RFD-TV. I plan on watching it again, with the sound on this time.
Chris
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 - 11:18 am:
I was thinking of everyone at HA while I was watching this too.
Chris, thats exactly what CLinton was saying about schooling in a more extreme frame so you can get what you want at a show. Also, I dont think they were comparing the horses as much as they were comparing their training techniques. Neither one was trying to prove anything. They were just talking about what they did any why.
Very fun to watch though. I come from the english riding background. I think we all got a kick out of seeing Clinton on that big bouncy horse. I certainly would have liked to hear what Levy had to say after riding the 3 year old.
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 - 12:49 pm:
Watched part two, and kudos to both guys for being willing to get on each other's horses! I think we will see Levy's ride on Anderson's 3yo next week. I watched with an open mind, but all I could think about the young reining horse was - poor thing, it's western rollkur! The horse had its head placed so far down and BTV that it was hard pressed not to be banging its chin with its knees at every step. Like Ann, I found the gaits to look unnatural and forced, almost as if the horse had had its back end scared under itself, with the tail somewhat clamped down most of the time. I was impressed with the lightness and responsiveness to the bit that was demonstrated while at the halt.
I had sent my question about breaking at the poll vs the 3d vertebra in to the DownUnder website, but did not receive a reply. Anderson did address this very question at the start of the show, saying that he was interested in obedience and respect more than where the vertical was. I hope that Levy will ask some theoretical questions in this regard next week. Overall, entertaining and informative, still watching... Stacy
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 - 6:42 pm:
Hi Stacy,
I also sent the same question to the web site with no reply.
I dont get the channel on my cable. I also wrote and complained about that. I would love to hear about the third show. It should be interesting. I love the way his ideas make my horse so soft however my horses build does not make him able to carry himself in that way so thats when I go back to dressage sort of a combination. I wonder if they come to some sort of balance between them ? Clinton and Levy that is. I am sure that each will see some good and bad points with the different types of training. Cant wait to find out. I really like clinton anderson but I dont like the way the horses are so bent as you describe.There is a middle ground and I hope I have found it. Always learning.
Katrina
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 - 7:08 pm:
I think like most everything in life we take what we can use and file the rest.. I love how Anderson's horses are so light to the bridle, but if I were to ride with that I would have a horse BTV and flat... I do some of his flexing to the right to the left deal.. I feel its important for the horse to respond to the lightest feel.. but I don't take it to the foreword working.. I NEED contact.. as Anderson said about Levy's school master.. the horse is heavier then I am used to.. duh.. the horse is in contact with the rider.. all in all its a great show.. there is no RIGHT way .. there are MANY WAYS .. and each discipline is unique..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 - 7:31 pm:
I agree Anne, If the horse is happy willing an able. And you are happy willing and able and there is wonderful comunication and partnership between horse and rider, who cares how you got there. Because if it were wrong cruel and harsh you would not have that happy willing able relationship. There would be problems confusion and unhappiness.
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Member:
Dtranch
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Posted on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 - 8:25 am:
I think we all have to remember, it is training. These are training programs, so you see a lot of horses in training. Anderson does not advocate riding your horse on a 4 hour trail ride in this way. Have you ever been involved in sports, or any exercise program. We do a lot of exercises that put us out of our normal "frame" to either strengthen or loosen up. This makes us in better physical condition to perform when the time comes. Having played college football, I can tell you that I have done many exercises that were not comfortable in any way and were quite demanding on me physically. I did not walk around in these positions on a regular basis, but they prepared me for the task at hand.
I think if you compare the highly trained reining or cutting horse and the highly trained dressage horse, you will appreciate the fluid and athletic way they all perform their tasks. Although I am not at all familiar with the training of the dressage horse, I would have to assume that there are many "training" exercises that are not that comfortable as well.
Just my thoughts .....
DT
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Member:
Dtranch
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Posted on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 - 8:38 am:
Oh yea ... the ultimate goal is Western training is an extremely soft and responsive horse that works off a loose rein with little or no mouth contact whatsoever.
DT
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 - 10:04 am:
Yes, ditto what Dennnis said. My daughter has had her three-year-old in training as a reiner for the last year. It takes two years to "finish" a reining horse...as with most things horses, this isn't a hard, fast rule, but in general, it takes that long to master the different elements of a reining pattern and to be able to put them all together into the smooth finished routine you see in a reining performance.
The rider works completely off his or her seat and legs...the reins are operated in a "lever" fashion and with minimal movement....slight up, down, left, right. The goal of a reining horse (as I understand it, anyway) is to be soft, extremely responsive, and very straight. It takes great athleticism, fitness, willingness, and responsiveness to get there. When in training, you never run the patterns over and over...you practice the "parts" to perfect them. There are ten NRHA patterns. You have to be very careful when training to keep your horse from "anticipating" what the next element will be...this is tougher than you think.
Reining is a beautiful sport, and a very demanding sport. My daughter's trainer doesn't ask for a specific headset, but wants to see a rounded back and the horse working off his hindquarters...which naturally produces a lower headset.
I saw Clinton Anderson recently at his tour stop in Maryland...and thought his horse did have too much bend...still, it was a very enjoyable performance.
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Member:
Leilani
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Posted on Friday, Aug 18, 2006 - 6:31 pm:
I haven't seen Part 2 yet, but I have seen Anderson ride his QH mare Mindy and Diaz. I don't recall him riding them BTV. Leilani
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 - 5:35 pm:
Dennis, I agree, I could not have put it into words as you describe.
I think I am starting to turn towards western in my old age. I will never give up my English saddle however. Love both disciplines. But my horse coming from a reining champion seems to like it more. He loves no contact and will give me his heart on a platter if I give him what he wants. So what do you call me as a rider. I don't know. I think a happy one, but a sort of outcast in the serious world of showing. cant please them all.
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 - 11:05 pm:
I think it was great that Clinton put this show together and his willingness to compare notes with another respected trainer.
What I think will happen in the future is that Clinton will change his program a little bit. He is pretty young yet I think, and what he believes now may change.
I did get a laugh watching him ride "English" I really thought a good rider could ride any horse, any way. I was actually surprised he was a little bit flustered, but enjoyed his humor about it "being his show" and he was going to stick to the comment he wasn't doing that bad or some thing like that.
Maybe we should think of this as comparing ballet to ??? whatever another kind of dance would be (just got home after being on the road all day, some one help me out here)
Or wrestling to karate?
Like others, I still worry about the head being so low. Wonder if out on a trail ride does the head go up?
Does the horse have the ability to THINK with their head like that? Hey, I'd get dizzy and lose my brain going in circles looking down.
At least the dressage horse seemed to be thinking and seeing where he was going!
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 - 12:27 am:
ahhh maybe break dancing... they seem to be low to the ground.. !!! 
On the first day God created horses on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Lilo
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 - 9:32 am:
Hi all,
Could you tell me if this is part of the Downunder Horsemanship series? I would love to see some of this, but can't find anything with "Anderson/Levy" in the title.
Thanks,
Lilo
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 - 10:06 am:
Lilo, Yes, it is under the Downunder Horsemanship series...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Christel
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 - 10:40 am:
Just checked schedule for RFD-TV- Clinton's Downunder will air at 3:00- 4:00 eastern times today- Sunday. I believe on Sunday they are repeats from shows earlier in week.
If I'm rained out of mowing will watch, with the sound on this time.
Chris
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 - 12:51 pm:
Break Dancing, yup, perfect!!!
I printed out the RFD schedule and highlighted the horse shows.
Looks like the last part will be on Tuesday at 4 pm, again at 10 pm Eastern time, and Wednesday 8 a.m. with the last show Sunday at 3 pm.
I seem to always remember Dennis Reis, but miss Clinton and Parelli!
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Member:
Lilo
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 20, 2006 - 10:39 pm:
Thanks - I taped the 2nd of the series and watched it later - very interesting. Looking forward to seeing how Levy will do on the reining horse ...
Lilo
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Monday, Aug 21, 2006 - 1:17 pm:
https://web.mac.com/galearden/iWeb/Downunder/Downunder%20Horsemanship/Downunder%2 0Horsemanship.html
Hear is a pod cast of some of his training
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 23, 2006 - 10:16 am:
Did anyone catch part 3 last night? RFD has been running auctions (boring) so Downunder Horsemanship has been pushed aside. If you didn't see it, looks like Sunday at 3 is the only other time it will be on.
Levy didn't ride the reining horse. Clinton was riding a students dressage horse, age 6 I think. Then she rode the horse using Clinton's techniques.
I actually found it very interesting, and somewhat humorous. CA was complaining about not having his Western saddle, funny! Thought he was going off a few times.
CA really got after the lazy-with-an-attitude horse. And as he said, most English riders were probably cringing watching as it did not have anything to do with "your heel here, shoulders here, seat bones just so"..etc. He was more interested in lateral flexation, making the feet move.....classic Clinton Anderson style.
I think he made some good points that answer some of our concerns about the head down, and behind the vertical. When he got done, and the owner rode her horse, she not only could feel the difference in all aspects, but Levy commented on what he could see different as far as the horses frame and carriage.
So I think he made his point that how he trains a horse does carry over into whatever style you want to ride, whatever you decide to ask your horse to do, it will be done better.
Another thing that was interesting was when the owner was working her horse along the fence. The horse was afraid of the signs, the gates, so it was back and forth, turn, move out NOW. She was getting tired of riding and kept stopping and Clinton was getting after her!!
I believe many of us are guilty of that, and we don't realise how much more we need to ride our horses. At least those times we are trying to get past a sticky point! And yup, I am guilty too...either something hurts on me, or I start being concerned I am pushing the horse too hard.
I highly recommend watching this part, even if you didn't see the first 2 parts.
I would like to hear others thoughts on what they saw. I know I got more out of it than I thought I would, and thinking outside of the box is good!
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Member:
Lilo
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 23, 2006 - 3:55 pm:
Darn - I did want to see Levy ride that reining horse. I will try to catch this episode on Sunday. I was watching Clinton's training video (from the library) on collection and flexibility. At the end he really stressed how he wants the horse to move (and think) backwards whenever he takes his legs off the horse. I know backing is important - but, I always thought that the most important thing was to make a young horse go forward. So confusing.
Lilo
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 23, 2006 - 8:11 pm:
''You are riding like an English rider... I want you to ride like a cowboy now.. ""
I thought this last episode was fun to watch... the poor English rider was dead beat after it was all done.. Anderson kept her going past her quarter ride ..
Still do not know who Levy is..? ..
Over 10 years ago I went to a Denis Reis clinic ... the nine day one... I stayed in his trailer for the out of towners... I was one of those English riders that Anderson referred to as DESPERATE... I had to go to a cowboy to help me fix my mare or it was KAL KAN dog food for her ... she was dangerous..., I learned a ton at that time and have kept a lot of it for my other horses... I watched Reis just recently on RFD TV and he has changed a ton... haven't we all ... not just in appearance but in his style of teaching... he is softer then he was 'years' ago...
Anyway loved this program... had some good belly laughs and learned some too...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 23, 2006 - 8:40 pm:
Ann, I was surprised that Clinton did so much jerking on the mouth to the side and around like he did. And he commented a few times on how he ties a horse up to let them rest, then rides them again an hour later. (I actually started watching my recording of the show after supper but got interrupted, drats) I think it's misleading if he teaches the way he does, and doesn't tell us the other things he is doing.
Maybe he does, I don't own all tapes. Anyhow, that kinda bugged me. And I wonder if what he did with the jerking was necessary? O.K., maybe it was more like tugging around...........
I actually thought he was feeling insecure in the saddle and over reacting a few times, but I have to watch it again. Pretty tired at 10 last night
Just curious, do you like the "old" Dennis better or the "new softer" Dennis Reis?
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 23, 2006 - 9:07 pm:
Angie , the jerking of the horse's head did not surprise me ... Dennis did that too.. and I am willing to bet he still does.. In fact , some of the cowboy ways are just darn right ROUGH on the horses.... My mare for example looked like she had been run over by a Mac truck... Dennis said she was not halter broke... She did not jump when he tugged on the rope... after over an hour of 'jerking' her around and got on a pony horse to dally her to the saddle , as his arm was sore/ tired... she WAS HALTER BROKE... but her face was a mess... bleeding rope burns all over her nose / bridle path/ under her chin./ jaw line... .. BUT when I picked up that lead rope that mare was at ATTENTION... That was the morning session, we tied or let our horses go in the round pen for lunch... We came back for another round 2 1/2 hours..
Anderson did comment several times that it was not pretty...
I sent a 3 year old to a local national reining champion to be broke to ride... he is my neighbor and I could watch daily... Them cowboys work hard and EXPECT the horse to work HARDER STILL... it was not uncommon for the reiner to ride for two hours... of course there were lots of just standing , / letting the horse rest while trainer instructed a student rider... He too did a lot of jerking of the bridle.. after the the ride the horse was tied to a tree for hours.. the patience tree or what ever Anderson called it... YES . , it was hard for me to see... and the reiner and I had long discussions on what I wanted from a horse... all in all both experiences were very valuable... and it took away from them what I needed and was comfortable with...
Now this current three year old I wrote about is being taught by the Parelli way... but by a woman that is kinder / gentler then the men .. in my humble opinion.. And I like these results... she is SOFTER in the bridle... she is less spooky then my other horses... she looks for the rider for direction and works harder then the rider at this stage of her training....
So like I have said.. I take away what I can use and leave the rest in my thoughts... Dennis, from the TV show.. I like this one better... at the time I was there he was just getting started in religion.... I went to a couple of bible study groups at night with him... What else was I gonna do , but sit in a trailer and watch TV..... So he was starting to give to the bit ,, * soften * then ...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 12:55 am:
I caught the show too, and was disappointed not to see Levy ride the reining horse. Anderson's ride on the dressage mare was not totally foreign to me - probably because I evented big alpha mares for years, ones I started from babies. You just can't take any crap at all from them in terms of obedience and ability to focus on your requests as you are galloping towards a fence only one of you has seen before.
When the mare was introduced, with her breeding stated and all, I thought I could hear Anderson saying "yata, yata, but can she make me an omelette yet, cause by age 6 your Western horse can make Bananas Foster..."
There is always a point in training where you have some unpretty moments, and I think it is new to actually show this on TV. However, it takes some sensitivity and TIMING to apply these methods. I kept waiting for the mare to go up on him - might have been another unpretty moment without the horn to hang on to...
I noticed he did not attempt to put her BTV, but he was trying to cover many issues at once. All in all, I'm glad I watched this series. We always have things to offer each other across different riding disciplines
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 8:22 am:
I've always wondered about all this new nicey gentle training. I am actually relieved to see these clinicians get after these horses. But I worry about the first time horse owners who may be thinking that they can train their horse, ANY horse, by those methods....the gentle ways. So much depends on the horse and the person doing the training.
Yesterday I rode one of my lazy bones. Who likes to lean. I did some of the jerking around, and used spurs. He was a lot better at the end of the lesson. I don't recall all the steps Clinton did on the show, but what I did was pick up the rein, tug, tug, if he didn't bring his head around, then after the 2nd tug, touch him with the spur. Not to move him over, but to wake him up! It only took about a half dozen times on each side and he was saying "yes, right now". Then he did his usual and decided to head to the gate, it was quiting time! The new dressage whip I just bought helped with that issue.
I hope we see more of the "REALITY HORSE TRAINING".
Dennis, Alden??...........any comments on this?
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Member:
Dtranch
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 8:52 am:
Angie ..
I think you all are familiar with my training philosophy and methods by now. I never really understood what the "natural" way was, other than a commercial "buzz" word.
I am convinced that the old "cowboy" way is not the ticket, but I also know that you can't always nicely ask a 1000 lb. animal to perform as you wish.
I believe in building a bond of mutual respect and trust between trainer and horse is the key .. and the human must always be the leader. I am never cruel or mean to the horse, but I am firm. Sometimes a tug or a jerk is needed.
I will say this. When I first remember "natural horsemanship" becoming popular, I saw more horses training more people than ever before.
DT
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Member:
Green007
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 9:39 am:
Amen, Dennis!
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Member:
Lilo
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 10:57 am:
I am more familiar with the Parelli method than Clinton Anderson's - although I read his book and just yesterday watched another tape in his series ("Maneuvers"). In the Parelli method, there are the 4 phases - you ask very gently at first, then step up the urgency until you can get quite firm. You only stop after the horse has followed your request - or at least given a hint of following - it does not have to be perfect at this time.
What I saw Clinton doing in the tape was really focused on his end result - which is a reining horse. He stresses that he exaggerates in training, so he has to be less obvious when he shows. I thought that his horse was consistently overbent in the circles (neck and head to far to the inside). And the canter, to me, seemed to be almost a 4 beat canter rather than 3 beat. So, I guess I can't deny my roots, which come from my first instructors (German).
However, I do know many riders that have adopted Clinton's methods and are very happy with the results. I will try to tape the 3rd show in the series on Sunday.
Lilo
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 4:22 pm:
Angie, be careful a little info can be dangerous.... take what you are comfortable with and go from there..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 5:19 pm:
Well said Dennis.
Yes, Ann, I will be careful. I am very careful with the use of spurs, and the dressage whip.
And I keep in mind that every horse is different; some need a wake up call once or twice, some need it every time you ride.....until they "get it".
Rode 2 of mine today after reviewing the tape again....everything went really well, but I am not sure if I will have the horses nose around to my toe, or if I even care to try for that as long as the rein is relaxed, no leaning, we are on the circle, etc. (really should video myself, that would be amusing I think!)
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 6:02 pm:
Just wanted to say if you do follow CA advise or want to do it . I would not go with the single tapes. There is not enough training or info in them. And you and your horse could get very confused. I in the beginning got the softening tape and thought hey this is great but left a lot of information out and did not really give me the whole picture. If you want to try it I advise to start from scratch with the riding with confidence tapes. Its a bit like Parrelli . You have to start from the beginning and go through each and every exercise to get something wonderful out of it. I am not sure which tape you are watching Angie. He has a few out. Just stating this from my experience. And as I ve said before boring all of you I know, that you can do the tapes and not have an over bent horse or a 4 beat canter. Its up to you how bent your horse is. You just reward them a little earlier with just a softening of the poll instead of the full flex. Though I do recommend the side flexes as they soften the horse so much just a wiggle with your finger will put there head just where you want it and it will stay even if you don't hold him there.
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 24, 2006 - 6:12 pm:
PS I dont think jerking is good just a firm hold of the rein till they give is all that is needed.
Katrina
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Aug 25, 2006 - 9:54 am:
Katrina,
I have the Riding with Confidence tapes, and here we are talking about one show that is running this week on RFD TV. And you are absolutely correct in what you are saying. I have found that anytime things aren't going well with any of my horses, it's time to back up and review. We all get bits of information all over the place, and it's the learning journey that is so much fun IMO!!!
I think I "jerk" pretty gentle, and only on the one horse who is older.....and it did make a difference but I don't want to use that as the only method.
I hear your concern and I thank you.
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Friday, Aug 25, 2006 - 10:36 am:
Hi Angie, I wasn't directing that at you just curious which tape or tapes you have. I did think you had the confidence tapes but wasn't sure.
The rest was just in-case anyone wanted to start CA type training that it was best to start from scratch. I know some people who have bought like I did in the beginning just one of the tapes. That really isnt the way to go.
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