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  Discussion on Sour or hurting?
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 19, 2000 - 9:32 am:

My daughter has a 7yr old qtr/x pony, we have had his back worked on, we have had his hocks injected, we bought a wider saddle, we have sent him to a trainer, he was very green when we got him, he started kicking out behind when jumping, and sometimes lead changes, could he have a stifle problem? or has he learned to do this as an avoidance technique? At one time he was hurting and the vet says he's not hurting anymore, he didnt even want to canter at all at one point and the vet injected his back, then his hocks, he says there is nothing wrong with him.We have not been riding him much 2-3 times a week, but he is still doing it. Somehow I cant help but feel that there is still something wrong physically,how can we tell? Should I get a 2nd opinion from another vet? I like the one we have and dont want to alienate him?

Posted on Monday, Nov 20, 2000 - 7:02 am:

Hello Tina,
This is not clear evidence of a medical problem. Kicking out going over jumps is something you see in show jumping horses occasionally even those performing at the very upper levels. You would think kicking out would exacerbate any pain in the back or hind legs. Then again I think you are right to look.

Be sure to run any suggestions by your veterinarian. I think the first test I would run is a 14 day course of bute using pretty high doses, say 1.5 gram / 1000 lbs bodyweight twice daily, continue to ride him the same amount you have been. If there is clear improvement, remove the bute, if the problem returns you have pretty good evidence of a painful problem. If you have a painful problem it may be time for your veterinarian to refer you to an institution with specialist.
DrO

Posted on Monday, Nov 20, 2000 - 11:50 am:

Hi Tina,

FWIW, I'd have a good equine chiropractor examine this horse if you haven't already. On another track, "kicking out" at different times can also indicate, along with a tail swish or a head-bob, that a bit too strong of a cue was used when asking him something. This might be something to consider if he's doing it during or right after your daughter has used her leg on him, for example to ask for a lead change etc.

Amy Coffman

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 21, 2000 - 8:46 am:

Hello Amy
Please note, I find the use of equine chiropractors frought with danger as there are a lack of standards and objective research in the procedures they use.
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 21, 2000 - 9:18 am:

Hi DrO,
This is a good point to emphasize---there probably are a lot of quacks out there who are attending 2-day courses and then calling themselves chiros. This wasn't the type I was referring to. At this year's Horse Gathering, Dave Siemons, the chiropractor who works a lot with Mark Rashid, gave some helpful tips for evaluating who's qualified and who's not. I'll have to find my notes and report what he said. There *were* objective standards/licensing as far as I recall. I do remember that he was very suspicious of the ones who use mallets.

I've watched Dave work on a number of horses and have often seen noticeable differences in their balance and freedom of movement after just one session.

My own opinion as to the danger factor is that yes, there is an element of risk if the person's qualifications aren't assessed accurately, but that the average horse has in his lifetime a *much* greater risk of suffering long-term damage in the hands of so-called "horse trainers," for whom there are no standards or licensing--and in whose care horses are often left for months at a time--than in a one- or two-time visit to a chiropractor.

~Amy

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 28, 2000 - 8:11 pm:

Dear Dr.O and Amy,
Thank you for your kind suggestions, I want you to know that I have done some experimentation, as I have also felt that may my daughter was doing something unintentionally that may have been a contributing factor. We have already done the Bute as Dr O suggested as did our vet. Somedays he's ok and others he bucks up big behind, My vet says he should have a shot of legend as he found that there wasnt much sanovial fluid in his hocks when he injected them. I have my daughter switching to a milder bit, she has lost alot of her confidence due to having him throw her into the dirt, I'm very lucky that she hasnt suffered a serious injury, but I was working w/her on the flat the other day, and I had her working on the flat at the buckle, her pony was quiet and relaxed.I think our trainer was doing too much collected work all at once and it made him very sore. I only know of one "Chiro" that routinely works in our area and he uses mallets which I have always been told is bad. I had a massage lady work on him his lower lumbar it popped bad last yr after coming off an oxer, you could see the bones popped up in an X-formation, he is rather long in the back and a little straight in the hind legs, so even though he is great at snapping those front legs up to his ears nice and tight, and round, round over fences, he may have a more useful career as a driving pony which he seems to really like.
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