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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 9, 2001 - 11:31 am:

I just got a new horse and she is an 11 year old appendix (half quarter and half thoroughbred). She was used for barrels and I would like to use her for that too, but I need some help.

I am a good rider, but would say novice trainer. Here is my problem.

Before I begin, let me say I checked her teeth and chin groove, and all is fine.

When I got her they were riding her in a long shanked curb (not my choice of barrel bits), so I also put her in a curb, but with about 5 inch shanks. I think the previous owners were kind of heavy handed.

You would think that would stop her, but I am having problems. Once she is stopped, she will stand, but She does not want to stop once you get her going and she always wants to throw her head. I thought maybe they had rammed that curb port into her mouth one time, so I tried her in tom thumb (with curb chain), but I had hardly no whoa with the snaffle action and the curb chain didn't seem to help stop her either.

Right now I have her in a nose band & tie down for the head tossing when I ride her, but would like to teach her to tuck her head.

As far as a bit is concerned, I don't know what to do. I don't want to go more severe, but I need to make her stop. I can get her stoped at a canter, but am not real sure if she is opened up.

My friend suggested a side pull to teach her to tuck her head (Western style with nose band, but will that stop her.

I know I need to do some ground work with her on a lounge line. Any suggestions on that.

She is real calm when you are not on her back and respects my space. She is not a hyper horse off of her back....she loads, shoes....the worksbut on her back I think they have taught her to RUN RUN RUN. I need to teach her it is okay to walk....which she dosen't like to do, but I want her to run too.

I don't know much about English bits but would open to anything.

Someone please help!!!

Tonya

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 9, 2001 - 12:15 pm:

Hi Tonya,

Wow, this sounds like a large project but I'd advise two things in general: I'd go back to a ring snaffle or sidepull, and I'd spend a lot of time working on transitions, especially at the slower speeds. Some dressage type work would really help you here. Also, some careful work on backing can help you begin to build a stop that she'll offer before you even lift your reins. Mark Rashid gave me some help a few years ago on lightening up a mare who had come to me with the label of "hopelessly dead-mouthed" and "dead-sided." We were doing sliding stops in the pasture in a web-halter at the end of four days, and she was stopping at the slower speeds to just a tiny weight shift. (This was a mare who'd been through several trainers before I acquired her). All this came out of backing.

So, the *stop* obviously isn't in the bit--but often the head tossing IS, as that's a reaction to pain and trying to avoid being jabbed in the palate. Tom Thumb "snaffles" are quite severe in this regard, even though they look fairly benign. In addition, if the previous owners were riding her *two-handed* in a shanked bit she'd be getting jabbed in the soft space above her upper lip every time as well.

I would really spend some time (weeks, at least) doing slow, quiet work, aiming for softness, and not think about running her again until you're sure you could do it in a ring snaffle and without a tiedown, as that is going to allow her to work much better for you.

Best wishes,

Amy

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 9, 2001 - 3:27 pm:

Thanks Amy.

I think I will do that. Take her back to the basics with maybe a full cheek snaffle and the round pen.

I have never really used a sidepull. I had a friend of mine tell me that a sidepull should only be used on younger horses (breaking 2 year olds) and if I wanted to use a side pull that I may as well go back to a halter. I am not sure about that. The two horses that I broke, I started them in a full cheek snaffle with the John Lyons method.

Tonya

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 9, 2001 - 7:59 pm:

I agree with Amy,
I used to work with a few ex sporting horses that all displayed at least some of the things that you talk about.
The best go to whoa story i have ever heard was a woman who purchased a mare who had been mouthed and ridden with the old bushie rope for a bit! this mare had the hardest mouth you could imagin and would only canter or faster. So first thing she did was spell her and do lots of groung handling to build trust and respect, then when the horse would lead etc quietly she would put a halter on her and in a round pen just sit on her till no movement at all was acheived next she worked towards a slow walk, then only let the mare walk when ridden for over a year. This gave her the calm basis to work up from after that. the last time i saw this woman she was in her late forties and the mare was 20ish, to look at you would think it was a childs pony she was that calm to ride! because of the damage done to the mouth (she had also had her mouth cut several times to "soften it up" which is the worst load of codswollop i have ever heard)she never rode in a bit again and in the end never needed one.
It is fantastic to see that you are willing to work with this horse so she can be a much happier girl and enjoy having a horse friendly owner!
As for the side pull i have seen it used on all ages of horses with success, i also used it on my mare when breaking her and it worked well, i used elastic so it mimicked natural hand fealing and was not harsh on the mouth.
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