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  Discussion on Any suggestions for motivating a lazy horse?
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 27, 2001 - 9:27 pm:

I have a wonderful 13 year old gelding that never spooks, and is relaxing to ride because he is so bombproof and calm. But, I am wondering if any of you have any suggestions how to keep him from being so lazy and dead sided. It is hard to make him exercise and bend due to this. He is stiff, and the trainer we sometimes use says he is like a tank. After working with him, my trainer says he has very little energy left, and this trainer rides english all day everyday! (Duster is Western) You have to keep pumping and use crop to keep him loping, it is more of a workout for the rider then Duster! I love him, and he is great to hack around on, but I would like to make him a more flexible and keep him in good shape for his sake. Any ideas?

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 27, 2001 - 10:17 pm:

Hi Jill,

The best person I've ever seen deal with this problem has without a doubt been Mark Rashid... and I've seen him deal with it a fair amount. What you have to keep in mind is that "dead-sidedness", like heaviness in the bridle, is generally generated by the rider rather than the horse. Duster sounds like an awesome trail horse, and though the rides are work for you and your trainer, I'd be willing to bet Duster would be glad not to have the constant pumping and crop use. IOW, if he understood how to avoid that, I'm pretty sure he'd do what it took.

You hear a lot about the importance of the release when handling reins, but it's every bit as crucial with any other cue, including cues that ask for movement such as you might give with your legs or seat. If you are late with the release on these cues, then the horse has no idea he's doing the right thing by moving out and he becomes heavier and heavier. Pretty soon he's "dead-sided" and not nearly as much fun to ride. So the trick is to turn your awareness level way up to almost being able to read his mind, and to make sure that you reward him with a release of your legs each time he even *thinks* about responding. You'd be amazed how many folks who think they're releasing immediately actually keep legging the horse for several strides after he has offered a little surge forward. This is the same as saying to him "no, forward motion wasn't what I wanted". This has really been brought to my attention watching some of Mark's clinics---and sure enough, when the riders become aware of this and make a real effort to recognize and respond to their horses' tries, the horses become noticeably lighter in the same session. I was at a TTEAM clinic a while back and there was a lady there on big 4yo, who complained that he was dull and dead-sided. We watched her ride him in the ring and within seconds of her having mounted up, it became obvious what the problem was. Once aboard, she asked him with a visible squeeze of calves to step off, and in a few seconds he did---but then, instead of immediately relaxing her seat and leg to reward him, she actually squeezed him *more*, adding a few bumps with her heels for emphasis. The horse, who had taken one faster step now slowed and when she stopped bumping him he halted. "See," she said, turning to us, "He's totally dead." Well, he really wasn't, because there are no dead-sided horses; I'm sure this horse could still feel a fly land on his side as acutely as ever. However, by not only ignoring his good-natured offer of forward movement but actually punishing him for it by increasing the volume of her signals, she had effectively reprimanded him for moving forward and made it less likely that he would do so in the future. (This is how, btw, we used to "deaden" the horses for the kids when I worked at a summer camp.)

Anyway, to make a long story short, "heaviness" doesn't exist in the horse until the handler/rider is added---it takes two. Late or nonexistent releases are what create it. If you concentrate on seeing Duster's *attempts* to move forward and reward those, you'll have a lighter horse in no time. If he's been this way for years, he may stall out dozens of times in the beginning, but just start fresh with each request for movement, and when he thinks about offering it immediately reward him as if it's the coolest thing you've ever seen a horse do. (But be sure to release completely! :-)

Best of luck,
~Amy

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 28, 2001 - 1:09 am:

Wow Amy, thank you...
It is raining and I have no where to ride (I am in Socal where we don't set up for riding in the rain!) but as soon as it stops, I can't wait to try your suggestions!

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 28, 2001 - 6:40 am:

Hi Jill,
Mark Rashid also has several books available and is coming out with a tape set. His latest book is Horses Never Lie which goes into depth about describing how to recognize the try.

A real eye-opener to me was to sit on my horse, close my eyes and give the lightest feather touch possible with my legs. Nothing happened the first time-the second time I felt his weight shift forward even though he didn't move. That was the try from the feather-light cue! About the fourth time, he took one step forward and was rewarded like crazy. Immediate release and plenty of "good boys". Now maybe this dosn't sound that exciting, but what you are able to do by closing your eyes, is completly concentrate on the horse and his response to a feather-lite touch and start learning how to recognize it. I stopped right there the first day-mainly because I didn't have my riding gear on and just had to run out and try this after reading about it. (My horse is in the backyard)

The next day, he moved off on the first touch which was barely nothing compared to the squeeze- release I have done in the past. Now we may have to repeat this several times, but to me it was awesome to start being able to understand the try.

All of this brought to mind an exercise one of my instructors had me do which I had forgotten. Have someone put you on a lunge line, close your eyes and call out each time the back left foot hits the ground, the front left hits the ground and then reverse to calling out the right hind and front. It really makes you concentrate on feeling your horse and being aware of his movement. More difficult than what you would expect, at least in my case (couldn't possibly be my age!!) The person on the ground watches for you and tells you when you are right. I need to do this again myself.

It's worth buying one of the books-the tape set will probably be great!

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 28, 2001 - 10:57 am:

Just to sort of augment what is written above-

When you make a request to go forward, think of 1-2-3 in escalating degrees of request.

1 is a squeeze with your ankles - use your shin bone, too, - squeeze, release. Then if the horse moves remotely faster, praise and pat. After a few steps, repeat.

Use 2 if 1 fails to get a response - this ia a more insistent boot/bump with your ankle/heels - don't pull your leg off to boot, but just boot harder from where the leg normally rests, - again you are giving a quick "get in/get out" aid and wait a moment for a response. Praise for forward momentum. Practice some more when the forward motion is lost.

Use 3 is if 1 then 2 fails. 3 is the crop - used behind the calf - the moment the horse moves forward, praise, pet, etc. Initially, I use a crop as a touch/tap - you may need add a 4 or 5 where the crop is a bit more insistent.

Start your rides on a 20 meter circle and work on requesting forward. Always praise forward motion. Always be consistent in your sequence of requests.

Then, be sure your heels/legs aren't in "nag" mode - using the 1-2-3 order above, only request when you want forward and then the legs should be quiet. Now your horse will learned to be tuned in instead of tuned out. (Over the years, many horses learn to "tune out" all the extraneous noise from riders - nagging heels, jerky hands, unbalanced seat aids, etc.)

Several years ago I rode a mule down the Grand Canyon. We were given mule motivators - wire crops covered in leather to smack their croups with and counseled we must use them to stay close to one another for reasons of safety.

Lucy, the mule, quickly learned that 1-2-3 leg/boot/motivator was my consistent request and she became "hot" off my leg in about 3 requests. We kept up just fine, and the motivator was just another thang to carry.

Mark's books are great reads. He really gets you thinking about the human horse interaction.

Good luck.

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 6, 2001 - 2:20 pm:

Thank you all so much for the Mark Rashid recommendation, I have been reading up! Good ol Duster is feeling good as it is spring, and when I have been riding him he is almost like a normal horse!! But I have been getting quicker responces to turning, backing and some of the other tougher things for him to do, even though I am sure he is a tad stiff due to not getting out as much as he used to in the last few weeks. (rain!) I have been using progressive pressure to get responses, and have found that if I can find the lightest pressure and stick to that, I can get an response at just a tad lighter pressure the next time. Now to work on his forehand... :)

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 7, 2001 - 11:05 am:

Chris, I like the 1-2-3 Mule Motivator approach! Now what about the stiff horse that moves off lightly from the leg into a trot, but then "fades" as I ask for him to bend around a true circle, or relax his jaw, or not hollow his back...? I think he's saying "okay, I can bend, or I can trot, but BOTH?" Sometimes I feel I need to give a squeeze every other stride to keep him working from behind, to keep a rhythm, and this definitely feels like nagging and can be exhausting. Does that mean the horse is dead to my leg? His owner implied that the horse was "lazy", I assumed it was a result of his terrible stiffness, but maybe we're both wrong.

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 7, 2001 - 6:47 pm:

Hi Spider,

In truth, the question you ask is what dressage is all about - striking a correct balance of aids to encourage the horse to work in comfort and beauty as a partner. Whole books have been written on this - the answers are not "how to" but awareness of "where am I" and "where is the horse" and how to shape what you feel into what you want to feel.

We try to frame questions a horse can say "yes" to.

I started riding at age 10 and I just turned 48. I still wrestle with these issues of improving and not settling for okay. It is the "zen" of dressage.

If your horse responds to a squeeze by moving off the leg, then he is not "dead" to the leg. You may need to apply leg every so often - try to do so before he lags too much and try to do it with the 1-2-3 approach and then go quiet when he responds. Initially, it may take a frequent application - but do it on purpose and not out of habit.

The challenge is then striking a balance of leg/seat/hand such that the horse can say yes. There are no real "tricks" - if I do x, then y, then z, he'll do p ... it is making a request, waiting a moment for a response (they sometimes are slow coming), accepting the response and being quiet for a moment, or re-requesting perhaps more obviously and, when it is good, telling the horse.

What you are asking may be within the horse's repetoire or may not, depending on his training. So, the goal is to approximate success in small increments and a few steps of good become more steps of better.

Some general thoughts for you to inventory as you are going around:

Are you keeping a leg laid on, even when not requesting? Are you hands quiet, even, thumbs up, receiving of the energy generated by the leg? Do your hands act independent of your seat and one another? Do you use hands w/o legs and legs w/o hands? Are your thigh "gripper muscles" loose? Is your pelvis loose? Are your eyes no lower than the fence line? Do you feel relaxed and athletic? Are your stirrups absolutely even (measure before mounting)? When you apply a leg aid, do you think of applying the bone of your leg rather than the calf which is very mushy and imprecise? Do you breathe? Smile? Reward the horse with a touch? Verbal? Slight give with the rein?

The devil is in the details - what you do, when and how consistent you are.

For one, I would concern myself less with flexion of the head and more with going calmly straight and forward - no easy task. If you choose a perimeter of rein length (with some contact) and are quiet/correct with your hands, often the horse will round with the forward work and some elements of lateral bending - shoulder fore/leg yield.

As far as stiffness - think of placing his shoulder in front of his hind legs - most horses fall in/out on a 20 m circle depending on the direction and their stiff side, so rather than trying to straighten by moving the hips around, try bringing the shoulder in front of the inside hind a half step using whole leg/seat ... ask and release. You may need to warm up to this with turn on forehand and turn on hq. Once you have a half step over, you are on your way to shoulder fore (not in).

You need sf to go straight as the horse is narrower on the front and the front needs to be positioned evenly in front of the hind legs to track straight. Using a wall for straightness actually makes you crooked - so working off the wall track on an inside track is good.

Whew, I've been carrying on ... are you sorry you've asked?

As far as a lazy horse ... or dog ... or any animal we work with - we are training with every interaction we have with an animal - what we accept, tolerate, reward (knowingly and unknowingly), etc. is learned quickly by the animal. Unlearning takes some resolve on the part of the person - it is far easier to establish a new habit than it is to untrain an existing one!

So, keep the mantra "calm, straight, forward" and it will get better.

Walter Zettl's book is quite useful for thinking through aids, feel, etc.

But, the bottom line is that you will need to experiment a bit with your timing, requests, sequences ... and in the words of my teacher, "How do you know when you've done enough? When you get a response!"

Sorry for the treatise. It is just that I've been there and done that over and over - I've a closet full of t-shirts, ;O)

Posted on Sunday, Apr 1, 2001 - 8:59 pm:

I started looking for a forum on "lazy" horses, because I recently purchased a 5 yr old, TB-cross mare that will not move forward! I become sooo frustrated during my riding and just feel like screaming, so I apply leg pressure..I wiggle my feet, I tap-tap-tap-tap-tap with a dressage whip..I tap-tap-tap-tap-flap-flap-flap my heals, and nothing. Oh, maybe I'll get a burst of energy for 3 or 4 strides, but then it's over. What Christine is saying makes perfect sense, and unfortunately I've been too impatient and imperfect to realize what "I" am doing wrong. There is no reason this horse should be so lazy, especially when she has a blast running around the pasture with a wonderfully big extended trot!
Christine,
I am going to work on calmly applying the 1-2-3 method. It all makes perfect sense...What have I been thinking?!?! In my defense, I've never had to ask my horses to move forward, my challange was always in slowing them a little and trying to collect. I'm just not used to a nice, respectful horse. Thank goodness I've only been riding her for 2 weeks, so I haven't had the time to ruin her, and I believe there is hope for me yet.
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