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  Discussion on Help... they claim my horse is evil...
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Posted on Monday, Jun 7, 1999 - 11:55 am:

Ida,

I feel very strongly that you can reduce the possibilities of problems by separating mares and geldings in different turn outs.

Then, you have to consider the way the horses are managed ... how are the horses brought in (order)? how many are turned out together (high density creates competition for limited resources)? how are they fed? are there more hay piles than horses? where is the gate? if it is in a corner, a lot of milling around, jockeying for position, etc. can be tight and more injurous.

Finally, the individual horse should be considered. They do have preferences. They do have a herd order. They do behave as horses.

What to do? Can your horse be turned out with a smaller group of geldings that he gets along with? Are there reasonable adjustments that can be made to the feeding that discourages fights? etc.

I don't think your horse is inherently evil. A horse that is aggressive tends to be so most of the time, to most things. You've not described this.

Good luck. Hope this gives you some ideas.

Posted on Monday, Jun 7, 1999 - 9:37 pm:

Hi Ida,

Nothing like a busy barn to get all sorts of negative feedback! Seriously, it's too bad that this happened and precautions need to be taken in turn-out (as Chris suggested above) but horses are not inherently evil. I've seen horses take a particular dislike to another horse/pony and chase it relentlessly. It's hard to know why, but typically these "victime horses" are a different color.

When people are critical I would say something along the lines of:
"horses are not inherently evil although sometimes to those who do not understand them thier behavior may appear unusual. The biggest problem that horses have is that people have removed them from everything centuries of evolution has prepared them for and, to top it off, expect them to act like people. A horses behavior needs to be interpreted from the viewpoint of a horse and not as though they were children on the school playground."

If I were you I would be happy that my horse was not being used in lessons. As he is so particular in who and how he is ridden it's better for him to have one consistent rider. this does not make him better or worse then any other horse. Not all horses are meant to be a lesson horse anymore then all people are meant to be a teacher (not that I'm comparing horses to people :}).

When it get really irritating simply walk away and go to your "happy place". There are those that you can't convince so don't waste the energy. I do appreciate some of how you feel because my horse has been accused of kicking another horse. I'm not saying he couldn't have done it, although it's out of character. It's just that when 3 horses are turned out at night and no one sees the kick how do you figure out who did it? Except of course that it wasn't the horse that was kicked.

good luck

Teresa

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 8, 1999 - 1:34 pm:

Ida,

I would definitely put the hay out in piles, 1 more pile than horses. One big hay pile for 12 horses is asking for some fights.

The constantly changing herd dynamics can be very hard on the new horse(s) and the lower level horses. Perhaps they could group the mare and the less dominate geldings in one pasture and the more dominate geldings in another.

As far as bringing in/turning out - most horses seem to be excited about changing - whether to go in and get grain or to go out and get grass. To avoid fussing at the gate (which is in a tight area if it is in a corner) I would start with the dominate horses and work down to the 2 least dominate at the end being brought in together. Once you are consistent in taking the horses in/out and respect their herd order, they almost start to line up at the gate in proper order! So, for me, it becomes more convenient.

A lot depends on the people available to do the chores and whether they are motivated to preserve order. Routine goes a long way for establishing peace.

Also, new horses should be introduced very carefully. First they should be walked around the perimeter of the pasture (without the other horses) so they can understand the layout and how much room there is. Then, they can be introduced to one of the lower level horses in turnout. Over several days, a different horse can be introduced, one at a time, to the new one in the separate turnout. Finally, they can all go out together. This is the safest way to manage herd changes. A friend of mine lost a new horse that was essentially murdered by the herd when she introduced the new one to the group all at once. My friend watched for a couple of hours, thought everything was okay and left. Later that day, she returned to a horror - the new horse was beaten and had a broken leg. He had to be put down. It was very terrible.

Some farms require that horses prone to kicking do not wear shoes on their hind hooves. This may be something you'd consider for your horse as a way to alleviate some of the concerns.

Good luck, Ida.

Posted on Saturday, Jan 6, 2001 - 9:36 pm:

Who are these people looking after your horse Ida? If you are paying board, you have the right to question their practices, and boy, Chris and Diane B. sure gave you lots of things to look for. I have changed boarding stables 3 times in 8 years due to unsatisfactory conditions; the first barn turned out everyone together, allowing all horses to run out of their stalls thru' the arena and out into the field, then reversed it when they came in, great eh? The second barn had paddocks that were too small for the number of horses; my QH mare was chased thru' the pagewire fence trying to avoid an agressive gelding she was turned out with, once tangled she stood quietly till help arrived, thank God! The barn we are in now has large fields, separated groups of horses, lead in and out of the barn in order, and lots of hay for everyone. Also, I don't let others ride my horse for lessons because she would soon go sour, I've seen good horses get spoiled by beginners, so if my girls ride Fancy, I ride last. As Diane mentioned, leading manners do make a difference, so try to be aware of how your buddy leads, then no one will have any complaints in that area at least.

Best of luck Ida

Posted on Sunday, Jan 7, 2001 - 1:40 pm:

A lot of nice, but sensitive horses will rebel when faced with dealing with a beginner rider.
Why do you allow your horse to be used as a school horse? Is it to get a reduction in price of board or lessons? If so, offer to do chores instead of loaning your horse. I believe any horse will eventually regress if ridden by riders below the level the horse is trained.

I have seen dominant horses, but none that would deliberately step on another horse. Do what it takes to get your horse a turnout that eliminates this problem.

Believe me--I know what it feels like to have others exaggerate the behavior of a horse. I lost a farrier because he hated my horse. She never misbehaved for me, but had to be handled gently and in a special way.

Posted on Sunday, Jan 7, 2001 - 4:31 pm:

I have to agree with Marion. Unless you trust the judgement of the owner/trainer/instructor totally, you can open a huge can of worms by allowing lesson use of your horse in addition to his/her possible regression to poor habits.

I too was offered a reduction in board if I allowed my gelding to be used in the boarding barn's lesson program (this is actually how the barn acquired nice horses for their lesson program so that their students could show competitively!). Although I definitely could have used the extra cash, after seriously studying the trainer's methods and her students' abilities, I knew right off my green gelding would ultimately be RUINED. I opted for budget-trimming in other areas instead.

At yet another boarding barn with my very first horse, I allowed a trainer I had initially respected and trusted to use my horse for a Pony Club Test Rally for which they were short of horses; and even though I was PROMISED he would only be used for flat-work (he was coming off an injury layup & the vet had okayed him for the Rally flat-work only) - I found out later (as I couldn't attend the Rally) that they had jumped the heck out of him with many different riders!!!

Live and learn - but definitely think twice about "leasing" your horse to a lesson program!

Bonnie
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