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Discussion on Won't canter on right lead
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Member:
Tuckern
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 12, 2006 - 3:01 pm:
Hi all,
I have a question about getting a horse to pick up a right lead canter.
My mare is now at the point that I want to start cantering her again, first on a lunge line, then as she gets more balanced, and I get the courage, under saddle.
I can get a left lead canter pretty consistently. But she refuses to pick up the right lead. I've got her on a 30 ft line, and no matter what I do, running at her, smacking her with a rope or lunge whip, she will not canter to the right.
I'm pretty confident it is because she is not balanced enough and/or is stiff on that side. My question is, should I keep cantering her on the left, even when I cannot get one on the right? I don't want her building up more muscle on the left without working the right too. Does that make sense?
What can I do to build her balance / muscles on the right to eventually encourage a right lead canter?
She's a pretty lazy horse anyway, she only runs in her paddock when it's absolutely necessary, and I have seen a right lead canter at liberty a couple of times, so I know she can do it.
Thanks,
Nicole
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Member:
Stevens
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 12, 2006 - 4:30 pm:
Hi Nicole,
Does she take the left lead when going to the right or just not canter at all? You may want to consider ruling out any physical problems before pushing the issue.
If she's really stiff, try getting her to stretch to take treats held near her sides. Trotting with properly adjusted side reins can also help improve her flexibility, but consider getting some professional advice in that area.
If you have access to a round pen, or small square pen you can try getting her to roll-back and then canter off. It takes some practice to get the timing right, but if you can cue her to canter as she's rolling back to the right, she should be positioned to take the right lead.
By roll-back, I mean have her going to the left, then stop her and turn her back into the fence. The trick is to get her body in the position that the right lead is the easiest thing to do. Of course, she needs to be willing to canter off.
Good Luck,
Chris
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 12, 2006 - 5:39 pm:
A ground pole or very small jump works well to initiate canter.
To "break" stiffness I use ground poles or cavaletti in lunge work. Five or six of them is plenty, you do not need to make a complete circle with them. For trot, the distance between them is 1,4 meters (middle to middle).
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Member:
Tuckern
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 12, 2006 - 6:32 pm:
When going to the right, she will not canter at all. She just goes faster and faster at a trot. It's a really nice extended trot, but that's not what I'm asking for. :0)
I do alot of stretching exercises with her 3-4 times a week. Here's my stretching regime:
1. Nose touch to her flank - both sides
2. Neck/head stretch out front
3. Nose touch to her chest between her legs
4. Back arches / "tummy tucks"
5. Tail stretches
6. Leg stretches - I stretch all four legs forward and backward, holding each stretch for 20-30 seconds.
I am currently doing alot of lunging in side-reins, at a trot. So far, when I've asked for a canter, she doesn't have side reins on.
Chris, I've never tried a roll-back. I don't have a roundpen on my property, but have access to one. Of course, like you said, she'd have to be willing to canter, and right now, I don't think that's the case. She thinks horses aren't supposed to work this hard, she just wants to be a pen potato, thank you very much. :0)
Christos, I have used ground poles some, but she tends to break down to a walk to go over them. Is this just a case of keeping her going and "push" her over the poles?
Thanks for your help!
Nicole
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Member:
Cpacer
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 12, 2006 - 9:22 pm:
Don't know if this would jive with the training that you do, but one thing my trainer has me do to practice on the bad side is to make it uncomfortable for them to do it wrong. She'd have me request the canter in desired direction, when the wrong lead is taken keep pushing in the direction you want--even reaching an arm out in front for that lead, moving the whole body and mind into it, eventually they find it's more comfortable to switch, then as soon as they get it let go and let them stop, then do it again.
Another thing we practiced was to use a hind-quarter to build momentum in a circle then push out straight in the direction your asking leg is in, kind of like winding up in a trot and letting it go while they're naturally positioned to take off on the correct lead.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 2:29 am:
Yes, Nicole, when you ask for trot or canter it has to be trot or canter. Preferably the first time you ask, not a big deal if you have to ask twice with a green horse, the third time is always the whip.
30 ft may be a bit far to establish this, especially with a lazy horse and no round pen to keep her focused on you and your requests.
I'd reel her in to 22ft, then allow her to open the circle to 30ft when she complies.
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Member:
Dove2
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 6:29 am:
Since a horse generally wants to get along with us humans, the fact that this mare consistently won't pick up the right lead strongly suggests that there's pain or a physical issue involved. Have you had her checked out by a vet or chiropractor. Sometimes the chiropractor can detect more than a vet, because they are more sensitive to issues of stiffness and soreness.
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Member:
Green007
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 10:15 am:
Hi Nicole,
Try getting your horses weight off of her inside shoulder. You can do this by practicing leg yields, shoulder in or haunches in. These don't have to be textbook perfect dressage movements, they are just tools to get her weight off of her inside shoulder and get her engaging her hind legs.
Once she is doing these exercises well, with a nice bend around your inside leg, she will have a much easier time taking the correct lead. Her body will be positioned to help her out.
One final hint - make sure you are actually asking for canter exactly when the outside hind is hitting the ground. That is the leg that starts the correct lead. If you keep asking her for canter when her head is bent to the outside, her inside shoulder is overloaded, and you kick her right when her inside hind leg hits the ground, you are asking for the outside lead no matter what you believe you are doing.
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Member:
Tuckern
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 10:41 am:
To answer some questions, yes this mare has been thoroughly checked by a vet and a chiropractor, and was given a clean bill of health.
cp, that is exactly how I train as well, making the wrong thing hard, and the right thing easy. In this case, I am trying to get a canter from the ground first, and it gets exhausting to chase her with waving arms, only to get no response. Part of this might be my fault too, because I've done alot of desensitization with her, so nothing I do seems to phases her.
Christos, I will reel her in a little so I can get direct contact with her. Is it okay to keep cantering her on the left during the workout? On the other hand, maybe if I can get a very consistent / automatic canter when I ask on that side, maybe it will carry over to the right side?
Roheryn is definitely a "left-handed" horse. She does everything better on the left. So maybe it's a matter of working the right side more, to get it up to par with the left?
Dove, while MOST horses generally want to get along with us humans, Roheryn, I believe, is different. To give you some history, I bought her 2 1/2 years ago from a lady who gave up on her. This lady does barrel racing, and Roheryn wouldn't run at the barrels. And when she wouldn't run, this lady tried to make her run by putting her in a roundpen, or on a lunge line, and beating her. Well, eventually Roheryn had had enough and started fighting back. She would charge and rear at the person in the middle, and strike out with her feet and mouth. I was aware of this when I bought her but when I looked in her eyes, I didn't see a mean horse, I saw a scared and unsecure horse. It took me a year and a half to gain her trust and respect (it did take a couple whacks with a whip when she was attacking me, for her to back down).
So for the last year, we've been making steady progress, up until now.
Thank you!
Nicole
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Member:
Tuckern
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 10:43 am:
Debbie, is there a way to get her to shift her weight off the inside shoulder when I'm on the ground, with her on a lunge line?
Thanks,
Nicole
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Member:
Green007
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 10:51 am:
Yes. Starting close up to her, do leg yields and shoulder ins from the ground, tapping her with a whip where your leg would go. When I longe, I teach them up close that when I point the whip at their hip, I mean for the hip to move over. When I point the whip to the rib cage, I mean for the horse to move sideways. When I point the whip to an invisible spot in front of the horse, that means whoa.
Do it all up close at walk and trot, then gradually let out the line until she understands. Do not run her off her feet when you do this as it is too hard on the joints.
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Member:
Dove2
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 12:10 pm:
Nicole,
Thanks for your explanation. It sure sounds like you are most sensitive to her. Since you indicate you are looking for help with groundwork and are not cantering her under saddle, I was wondering if you have tried longlines on her, rather than lunging, mostly for the balance issue of keeping her weight more evenly distributed, rather than on the inside shoulder. Also, when she just goes faster and faster at the trot, refusing to go into the right lead canter, what do you do? Do you bring her back down? Do you think you could keep her going until she offered the canter? As soon as she offers that first effort, then let her rest, and build from there. I know, sounds easier that it really is.
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 12:17 pm:
I would vote for it being a pain issue. If not physical, perhaps mental. A horse can take both leads, but one is easier and more comfortable for them. And if you only work in her good lead, she will over develop certain muscles and it will make taking the other lead even harder.
I would even go smaller with the circle; I use a 14' rope...but experiment with different lengths. Can you smack her butt with the lunge whip with the length of rope you are using without running at her? Is she trotting at a good pace, then when you say CANTER, does she go into it within a few strides? (on her good side) If not, you have to make it known you are serious, and canter means canter NOW. She may just be in a rut of not cantering the other way, and doesn't know she must canter on her right lead too.
Are you using a bit or just halter? The reason I ask is because I have a 7 year old gelding who also fights cantering on one lead....but it's his teeth. He will do it in the round pen, but in a bigger area apparently the bit position changes enough to hit a sore spot, or pinch. We are steering more in the bigger area...so go figure.
I think I would at this point trot to the left...canter a few strides, stop, tell her what a good girl she is!!!! After reading your last post, not sure how assertive to be with her if she's been abused. Less trotting to the right, ask for canter, etc, see if you are trying to break through a mental issue here from her past.
Sometimes the biggest breaks comes when you are about ready to sell the horse!!
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 9:43 pm:
One thing that popped out to me when you talked about the horse's past,"Roheryn wouldn't run at the barrels. And when she wouldn't run, this lady tried to make her run by putting her in a roundpen, or on a lunge line, and beating her."
The first two barrels are run with a right turn, correct? Seems like this horse was willing to endure a lot of pain and pressure in order to avoid cantering right, doesn't it?
I wonder is Dennis is reading...he sometimes has that cowboy logic that can get to the bottom of these types of issues. Dennis, are you out there?
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 1:38 am:
Yes, Nicole, if you get a consistent response on the easy side it will be a lot easier on the stiff side.
This is how we teach every new thing, we find a way to make it very easy for the horse until she understands what our cue means.
Cantering on the easy side will not amplify her crookedness, don't worry about that. My concern would be that cantering a crooked horse on the lounge is kind of unnecessary strain. Try to keep it to a minimum until she softens a bit.
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Member:
Dtranch
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 8:50 am:
Nicole ...
Since you have already ruled out any physical problem, I would have to place a lot of emphasis on the past experiences you outlined. I am thinking that she has dealt with a lot of pain and aggravation because of her inability to perform these right turns for her barrel racing "trainer". It may have even been physical at that time, but that may be irrelevant now. Whatever the reason, she seems to be very "sour" to the right.
I would focus my efforts on a lot of "easy" work to the right for a while and give her a chance to gain confidence and reward for working to the right. I would even put out some barrels and just walk around them to the right til you can get her to turn around them comfortably at a walk with just your leg cues. Then build to a trot. This is the exact same way I start a barrel horse .. I believe if you can't manage it perfectly at a walk, then trot, you have no business forcing the horse to try it at a canter.
Anyway, reward every little effort with this work to the right. Next I would start working some large serpentines where you can include a lot of trot work for both sides. Once you feel she is getting confident and relatively smooth in her turns at the trot, ask for a canter on the left side of serpentine and see how she transitions to the right turns on her own. Do not punish her if she doesn't negotiate it perfectly, but give her a thousand opportunities to get it right .. and then reward immediately. I would suspect that in a very short time, she will learn that she can easily and confidently move into the right turn.
Continue all your stretching and flexing to make her as soft as possible and I believe you will get through this period nicely.
DT
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Member:
Tuckern
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 12:18 pm:
Well, I took everyone's advice and ideas, and put them into action, and got three strides at a canter, three different times last night! I was so excited.
I put her on a 14' line, so that I could reach her with the whip. It did take alot of convincing, and she was pretty mad at me, but it was a breaktrough. I really think it was a mental barrier, so hopefully I've made the first steps in breaking it down. Once I brought her back to a walk, she immediately started licking and chewing, processing and digesting the information.
Angie, I think she heard your comment, "Sometimes the biggest breaks comes when you are about ready to sell the horse!!" Although I would never, ever sell her, maybe it got her thinking. 
Dove, when I ask for a canter and she doesn't comply, I have been getting after her, waving my arms, but I can't do that for very long, I get tired, so then I back off, so that could be part of our problem, I'm not consistent. Lunging on a shorter line helped because I could make direct contact with her.
Angie, I'm using a Clinton Anderson lead rope and halter. Sometimes I lunge her in a bit, but she tends to lean on my hands more, because the bridle is pretty wide. With the halter, it's thin, so she can't lean on it as much.
Erika, the previous owner went to the right barrel first, so the horse makes one right turn, and two left turns. And, when entering the arena, the horse would be on the right lead. Hmm, that's interesting, I'd never thought about it that way.
Christos, that's what I'm worried about, unnecessary strain. Although my goal is to only canter for a couple minutes at a time, I don't think I'll need to go any farther than that. For right now, I'm asking for a few strides, or a complete circle, then I bring her back down.
Dennis, I totally agree with the starting out easy first. Most barrel racers in this area are the opposite, they train at the canter. Therefore, they have horses they cannot control when they are brought into an arena. I haven't tried showing her a barrel since I've had her. She doesn't really like arenas either, and I haven't pushed the issue. She is an awesome trail horse, we both like being out in the great outdoors. I should introduce her to a barrel again and see how she reacts, now that she's more self-secure and trusts me. And, I'm going to start doing serpentines, I think that will really help getting her to use both sides of her body.
Nicole
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