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  Discussion on Explaining the How and Why of 4 Reins
Author Message
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Monday, Sep 18, 2006 - 2:52 pm:

As a self taught rider, I've learned mostly by reading and applying what I read.

Regarding the use of 4 reins, why do we use them crossed? As I understand it, the snaffle is on top in the horses mouth when using a double bridle. So wouldn't it follow that the top rein should be held on top?

I don't use the 2 bits in the horses mouth myself, just use "cowboy bits" that take 4 reins, but this has been something that has been nagging at me for some time.

In John Richard Young's book THE SCHOOLING OF THE WESTERN HORSE, (an out of print book, and JRY died maybe 10 years ago) he shows many ways of holding 4 reins. 1 set in each hand, or 3 reins in one, and a direct, snaffle rein in the other hand. And 2 in each hand, same side, not crossed. Which is how I started, but now I ride with them crossed also.

But would still like to know WHY?
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Monday, Sep 18, 2006 - 3:18 pm:

I can only tell you what I know about using four reins from what I learned with polo horses . . . I always use the thinner snaffle rein on top when riding with both hands, and try to use it more than the curb reins. When riding with one hand on four reins, all the reins are separated with one finger, and the snaffle reins are in the middle . . . and depending on whether or not I situate the reins curb reins with more slack than I do the snaffle reins, it would be the snaffle that would apply the most pressure with a holding back or a turn (although good polo horses are excellent neck reiners, and the bit pressure is more for "whoa.")

If you are crossing your reins, you are riding as if you are using indirect rein wihich is a way of teaching neck rein . . . and would seem to apply more backward pressure from the bit . . . so would be a more advanced manuever for a horse that has already learned how to flex and be soft and wouldn't be used on a beginner horse with whom you would using a direct and/or leading rein.

Does the author recommend the crossed reins for beginner or intermediate training, Angie?
Member:
Christos

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 5:07 am:

This is interesting, Holly, very interesting. I was taught the exact opposite.

To use a double bridle, the rider must be able to hold his hands perfectly steady, rein aids being applied by opening and closing the fingers and turning the wrist.

As the forefinger is steady under the thumb holding the reins from slipping, closing our fist will cause the little finger to "tighten" the most, followed by the third finger and, last, the middle finger. The forefinger should not close, it stays steady under the thumb, preventing the reins from slipping.

So the snaffle rein, which is the most mobile, stays where it is, between the little and third finger.

The curb rein goes one, two or even three positions higher (under your thumb), depending on how strong you want it to be. The lower it is , the stronger its effect when you close your fingers.

With this arrangement, the rider can also turn his wrist inwards (fingernails up) or outwards (knuckles up), applying the snaffle in an indirect or opening fashion respectively.

With four reins in the left hand, top to bottom:
Right snaffle, right curb, left curb, left snaffle. This way, turning your wrist upwards applies right snaffle and turning it downwards applies left snaffle, the curb barely moving in either case.

Though many teachers say that the thumb should always be on top when holding four reins in one hand to be classically correct, I prefer to turn my fist horizontal, fingernails down. I find it makes my wrist softer and mobile, it does not close the snaffle so much and it does not bear the reins tight on the horse's neck, which improves feeling.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 8:22 am:

Thank you, Christos. I have never used a double bridle for dressage . . . only Pelhams or Kimberwickes or other combination bits for polo horses, so your explanation may be correct for the riding you have done. When I worked the horses, I often DrOpped the curb rein or slackened it significantly so I could work on getting softness and keep the horses from throwing their heads in the air, which many of them did on account of the tight holding of the curb rein, so unless I was ponying another horse or two, I usually chose to ride with both hands on the reins.
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 9:59 am:

Tried to upload the authors pictures, not working will try later.

I hold the snaffle rein also between my little finger and ring finger as that is how I ride with just 1 set of reins. Actually I may run the rein over the next 2 fingers, depends on the horse, the thickness of the reins I am using. I pretty much ignore the curb bit except for brief periods of time to ask for "more" contact.

(I am using the 4 rein set up for brief training periods the while doing much more training with a plain snaffle...I switch bits and saddles around)

I did though start out with the curb there, and the snaffle between my first and second finger. But I found I used the curb too much. It is easier to adjust my contact with the snaffle rein where I am comfortable with it. The flexing of the wrist, and gentle closing of the fingers.

So in theory, I agree with the authors concept that the top rein, snaffle, should stay on top, the curb rein on the bottem.

And I ask again: WHY do we cross them as they go to our hands?? Don't all high school levels of riders ride this way? I thought they did.

My answer,for me, would be because I can keep the snaffle gentle and use it easier to direct rein. Which seems to be the opposite of what you are saying Christos, I understand you to say that you find the curb being higher up in your hand is more gentle?

(I may have to go ride and make sure I am describing this correctly as what I do vs what I can put into words may not be the same thing)

The book I am refering to btw, was first published in 1954. I do still refer to it from time to time as the author makes you want to ask "WHY is this so?" And his common sense approach still applies today.
Member:
Tuckern

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 10:11 am:

So when using four reins, there are two bits in the horse's mouth? I've never used this type of setup, well actually, haven't even seen one in use in person, and am curious.

What is the purpose of having two bits and/or four reins? Is it for extra fine control of the horse? Do some competitions require the use of four reins?

Please forgive my bombardment of questions, I just find this subject interesting.

Nicole
Member:
Stevens

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 12:10 pm:

Angie,

I'm curious as to what type of shanked bit you're using with 4 reins. I've had shanked bits with rein slots up near the mouthpiece, but if the mouthpiece was fixed (not broken like a snaffle) then I could never figure out what beneficial effect a rein would have there other than just pulling the horse's head sideways or maybe providing a milder situation with a shorter "shank".

I can see where four reins could be useful on a shanked snaffle aka Argentine snaffle. Personally, I like the Myler bits where each shank can be moved independently.

Chris
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 1:05 pm:

From what I can figure by grabing the phone cord and computer cord like they were my reins (should go to the barn and get a bridle!) I ride with the snaffle rein on the bottom and the curb on top. My reasoning is that I can make subtle request (cues) with my little fingers, and with small wrist movements that why. I use the curb with more strength involving moving the entire hand by turning the wrist in, or even by turning the wrist in and pulling the elbow back some. Does this make sense to you? It's much easier to do than to explain. It's just automatic for me to grab the reins this way. I normally ride in a Pelham bit with a short shank, unless I'm readying for a show then sometimes switch to a full double bridle. IMO it's easier to get more collection and at the same time to "talk" to the horse with four reins. Using the snaffle, you can carry on a constant communication with the horse, where as with a single rein it seem like you are more limited. Much of the time, of course, you don't need that much communication - just going down the trail for instance, or on an extremely well trained horse that seems to read your mind. Then I use one rein.

On what's called a "cowboy snaffle" out here, there's room for double reins, one slightly below the ring at the bit, and one at the end of the shank. The snaffle is jointed. Also, when going from hackamore, or side pull to a bit, or sometimes from a snaffle to a curb, you use four reins.
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 1:11 pm:

I have a snaffle mouth with a ring in it, and loose shanks. So a 3 part bit.

And what used to be called a Monty Foreman bit. A med port (I think) curb. I actually have 2 of these, one with fixed shanks, and longer shanked, and one with shorter swivel shanks.

It is the last one I prefer.

O, I have a mullein mouth too, never did find a horse that liked that bit.

As a training bit, I do still at times use a more side ways pull, being my hands are still farther apart than is usual.

So should I not be using a solid mouth piece if the horse is not neck reining 100%?

Just FYI, I started trying these 4 reins needed bits (this time) because my 7 yr old gelding is having some teeth trouble and the full cheek snaffle was hitting him in a way that causes him pain. Dentist isn't coming til the week of Oct 16th, so I started trying different set ups....and this MF bit is the one he is happy with.

But, I wonder, is it also bumping the roof of his mouth with side ways motion??

(how can I ask a question about one thing, and find myself wondering about a dozen other issues?)

I have used the MF bit on all of our horses at one time or another, and I think I said above I still interchange with a regular snaffle.

I have a Myler bit that I like on my arab mare, it's a level 3, and looks like a curb/kimberwickie but both sides move independently also.
Member:
Wgillmor

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 1:49 pm:

I'd be interested in comments on this:
https://www.classicaldressage.net/members/lesson_pages/spurs_doublebridle.html

(Despite the "members" in the url, I don't think you need to join anything to get to the page.)

Skip down to the discussion of Double Bridles.

I don't know enough to have an opinion.
Wiley
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 2:58 pm:

Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 3:02 pm:

I personally use the Utility method. We were not allowed to show in snaffles only curbs when I used to do equitation class's in Australia.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 3:23 pm:

Be wary of such articles, Wiley.

The "Spanish Riding School method" is wrong. On the left hand it should be: left curb under finger 2 and right curb under finger 1.

The author has briefly read Alois Podhajsky's "The complete training of horse and rider". He copied/pasted the drawing of a double bridle, he copied/pasted the text, then, in the only text that he actually wrote, ie the numbering of fingers and resulting explanation, he got it wrong.

The Fillis method is also wrong. This method of holding two reins in one hand was described by Col. Fillis for work in hand, where you hold both snaffle reins in one hand.

Putting the curb under your thumb requires a very specialised style, where you don't need your fingers or wrist to apply curb. You fix your arm against your ribs, work the snaffle with your fingers, lean slightly back to apply curb. It was a joke with my trainer, we called it "the Silly's method".
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 3:24 pm:

https://www.e-kissing.de/Lee%20Ziegler/How%20to%20use%20a%20Pelham%20Bit.htm

Here is the web site I got the pictures from. Sometimes I use the snaffle rein in between my ring and pinky and the curb one finger above. Though I could not hold them that way in the show though There are a few more different ways of holding them.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 3:32 pm:

Yes, Angie, one should not use a solid mouthpiece alone if the horse is not good in neck-reining.

I am not very familiar with shanked snaffles, so I'll leave comments for these to the ones that use them regularly.
Member:
Stevens

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 3:37 pm:

Angie,

There are many horses out there that don't neck rein who aren't in snaffles. Also, there are plenty that do neck rein that are in snaffles or hackamores. I don't know of any set rule on the subject. Whatever works for you.

My personal opinion is that it's easier to direct rein with a snaffle. It seems to me that direct reining with a shanked bit results in the horse's head getting tipped.
Member:
Dtranch

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 4:19 pm:

Angie ..
When experimenting with the 4 rein concept, I held the snaffle rein below the little finger, and the curb rein between the 2nd and 3rd finger. A slight bump with the fingers would cue the snaffle rein, and a more wristy action to cue the curb rein.
I have to say though, that I did not find this method to be particularly useful for me. I start all my horses in sidepull, then to full cheek snaffle. I stay in the snaffle until I have stop, go, and all turns with direct rein. I then start schooling neck rein in conjunction with leg cues while still in the snaffle.
Once they understand the neck rein cues, I then go to a broken mouth 3 piece swivel shanked reining bit, usually with a copper roller, but not always. This is basically the only bit I use from that point on.
By having the broken mouthpiece and the swivel shanks, I can get a slight snaffle action as well as curb action from this bit. I may go back to the snaffle from time to time if I want extended snaffle work for flexing, head set, or whatever.
I guess I just didn't see any real advantage in combining the 2 in the 4 rein .. my opinion only.
DT
Member:
Christos

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 4:20 pm:

Nicole, the purpose of the snaffle in a double bridle remains the same, whatever the discipline.

In Dressage, the curb is used to position the horse's head, and this is the exact danger with it. The rider needs to be very experienced to position the horse's head correctly.

We should never position the head and neck for style. Position of the head is just another cue. Think of it in halt. Positioning the horse's head slightly up, down, front or back, is four different cues, the horse will prepare accordingly for the set of exercises you have trained him to associate with this cue.

In hunting, where we do not need such a complicated communication system, the curb is just extra brakes. Beware, however, that if the horse is not carefully trained to respect the curb and obey it, one will not stop him by pulling on it. Pulling on the curb hurts the horse and makes him run more often than it stops him.
Member:
Dtranch

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 4:23 pm:

BTW ... Ditto to Chris
I would never recommend using a shanked bit on a horse that does not neck rein. It not only is uncomfortable to the horse, but can also be confusing and counter productive for training.
DT
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 7:03 pm:

I've had a headache today, but I've tried re-reading the book I referred to on these posts...as well as studying everyones posts.

This book was my horse training BIBLE before RFD TV and the internet!

Dennis and Chris;

I do agree: NO direct reining with a shanked bit, hence the use of the snaffle rein.

The purpose of introducing the curb action is only to refine what you have done with the snaffle. And yes, it must be used very gently, for short periods of time only.

If memory serves me right, JRY mentions using the snaffle to lift the head, and then the curb to soften the poll and jaw. He was NOT in favor of the lower head set, rather what ever head set kept the horse soft and collected. And he says that very few people understand collection and that it starts at the rear of the horse and goes to the head, not visa versa. (We all agree on that one I think)

A horse should reach for the bit, but not run around with his head down to work?

I see now that I've gotten dangerous with all the HA knowledge, ah hum, I need to re read the whole book, maybe twice.

I didn't get the impression that the neck reining came before the curb rein was used, rather it was part of the training process
BECAUSE NECK REINING IS ABOUT WHAT YOUR BODY AND LEGS ARE DOING. A well trained horse should circle, do serpentines, and hold whatever gait with OUT the reins doing anything....

that, in his opinion, was a well schooled horse.

And apparently in the 1950's, not many people could do that.

Christos, if I can get the picture to load ever, I do believe JRY shows the snaffle in one hand for riding, curb in another, (as one of 5 ways to hold the reins) and I know he refers to many of the same famous riders/trainers you do.....interesting isn't it?

I am going to take 2 more advil, and go back to the book...........make sure I understand his reasoning for what he was suggesting.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 7:50 pm:

Yes, the many ways of holding the reins are very interesting.

A snaffle and a curb rein in each hand I find relatively easy and useful.

All 4 in one hand is also useful and relatively easy, but holding a whip at the same time is...a challenge.

To use a whip with 4 reins, it is a lot easier if you hold 3 reins in one hand, the whip and the remaining snaffle rein in the other hand, usually the right one.

That's the three ways I have used. I have heard of holding the curb reins in one hand and the snaffle in the other, but have never seen it practiced or tried it myself.

That makes 4 ways. What is the fifth way this book describes?
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 8:08 am:

Wiley,
Thanks for posting the link. I read the article you referenced and for a someone who has doesn't know much about the full bridle it seemed to be a valuable source of information but since, as you know, from previous posts that I prefer to get accurate information when learning training methods (this for future use down the road obviously when I move up to double bridle) and because it's been noted on this post that some of their listed methods were wrong, there was an email link at the bottom to ask questions of the lesson so I emailed them to inquire a bit, I would wonder what they have to say. Their bios are quite quite impressive! They run the Scottish Classical Dressage Centre so it will be neat to get some more information on their lesson. Will let you know what they say.

Have an awesome day.

v/r
Corinne
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 8:25 am:

The black rein is the curb rein.

I don't see 5 different ways here, rather 5 different views. No pictures of 4 reins in one hand, or 3 in one, 1 in the other hand.

I've tried and tried to get the picture bigger and for some reason it's been going REALLY BIG or this....hope you can all see it.

Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 8:45 am:

Paiffe, 4 reins, one handed. Reins seem very relaxed. Podhajsky of the Spainish Riding School.

Notice the head is NOT BTV.

No more pictures today, I am going bald here!

Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 9:47 am:

Christos,

So these methods are wrong? The last picture, we can't tell how the reins are running through the fingers, but the horse looks happy, collected, and dancing in place. Neither rein looks tight, the rider looks to be sitting lightly and in balance.

I would think it don't matter one bit how the reins are held, if you can get the results you want. It's the riders seat, leg and all the training combined that makes the finished horse.

Heck, John Wayne held the reins in his teeth!!!

My original question was about crossing the reins. Which I admit to doing and gave my reasons.

If, as this author says, the snaffle is for raising the head, can we do this while we have the snaffle between our little finger and ring finger?

Off to ride, I'll have to see if I can figure that answer out myself.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 10:11 am:

OK, got it. Rephrase:

What the author of the article describes as the "Spanish Riding School method" is wrong, it is not the method used by the Spanish Riding School and one can not possibly ride a horse with the reins in the arrangement he suggests.

We know how the reins are held in Alois Podhajsky's picture, he has described it numerous times:

Right snaffle between thumb and forefinger,
Right curb between middle and ring finger,
Left curb between ring and little finger,
Left snaffle under the little finger.

When he was riding 3-1, he'd just take the right snaffle in his right hand, leaving the rest in place.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 10:40 am:

The method not being the one of the SRS is no tragedy. Neither is it important at all if the other method belongs to Col. Fillis or not.

But in the rein arrangement this article suggests, a twist of the wrist or closing of the fingers to apply left snaffle would apply right curb at the same time, which, I believe, is not a good idea.

For one who claims such classical experience and presents the public with educational articles on upper level techniques, this is totally unacceptable.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 11:03 am:

"Oh, I am nobody, Corinne. No level, no medals, no nothing. I couldn't care less for these. And I haven't trained with anybody famous either.

As far as my experience is concerned, I think I haven't started yet in real Dressage."

How can the person who stated the above set himself up as judge of what is acceptable in representing Dressage to the public by also stating: " . . . which, I believe, is not a good idea.

For one who claims such classical experience and presents the public with educational articles on upper level techniques, this is totally unacceptable."?

Success in communicating with horses requires the utmost honesty, yet the statements by the person above leave me with an uncomfortable feeling. To me, they represent a clear contradiction . . . If I were a horse, I'd falling down in my training here.
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 11:08 am:

Well at least they post their experience levels. LOL which is quite humorous considering you won't post yours.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 11:31 am:

Yes, Holly, I find application of left snaffle and right curb at the same time downright cruel, not just a bad idea.

And if someone with a lot of classical experience wants to present the ways of Masters he claims to be familiar with, he must present the position or the order of the reins right. If he presents both the position and the order wrong, he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, and I find this totally unacceptable.
Member:
Maggienm

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 12:57 pm:

I have had a similar question as Angie except mine is even more basic.
What is the point of four reins in the first place?
I thought I was using reins to introduce, then reinforce cues with the point being to use the least amount of visible aid to get the job done.
Yes, I am coming from a western background where my goal was(still is) bridleless riding.
Member:
Maggienm

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 1:20 pm:

More questions,
What is a cowboy bit that uses four reins?
one of the above pictures shows two methods of holding reins, to my inexperienced eye the rein position simply seems to be reversed, one called utility and one called equitation.
Could one substitute the words practical and show?
Member:
Maggienm

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 1:37 pm:

I am disappointed and frustrated to read the same combatants duking it out.
Peace can be maintained by stating ones own opinion, agreeing with what you do like and even asking polite, not sarcastic questions.
'Pointing fingers', picking apart someone else post, demanding explanations is just plain rude.


Currently in the dressage world there are at least three very successful riders who have very different styles. If winning makes something right they must all be right with the most controversial method being the most right. (At this time)
One doesn't need to hold a judges card to recognize
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 2:02 pm:

I'll see if I can find a picture of the bit I'm referring to as a "cowboy snaffle" and try and post it. It's only used for training as far as I know.
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 8:21 pm:

Lori,

That is an interesting point, I wasn't aware that some one in competition could ride with the reins in different styles?! I assumed they had to be held a certain way, and that way being with the snaffle rein on the bottem, curb on top, thus crossed leather.

Sara, and Lori,

I think there are many one piece bits that can take 4 reins. The cowboy snaffle would just be one that has a broken mouth piece, instead of a solid mouth piece.

Interestingly, I was looking through a book by Bob Loomis, on reining. I was hoping to see how he did his training, vs say, Clinton Anderson. I never did read anything that really answered my questions but I did notice him using a "cowboy snaffle" and it sure seemed he was direct reining at times off the bottem of the shank!

But, no head waaaay down like CA does.

And he has been a reining champion how many times? And breeds top notch horses. (I did learn about confirmation anyhow)

That really has my head spinning now.

What I read, granted not every word, about 4 reins was with the snaffle and bosal being used together.

O.K., maybe it's just because he breeds top horses that practically train themselves, huh?
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 20, 2006 - 10:54 pm:

The bit I'm thinking of is a copper jointed snaffle with a shank which can be of different lengths. The bit swivels at the joint where the bit is attached, so the entire bit is very mobile and loose. One set of reins is attached at the mouth where the bit is, and the other at the end of the shanks.

I have an out of print book, called either "The Making of a Reining Horse" or "The Reinsmen." I need to go out to my office to see which it is. At any rate, it follows step by step the training process used by the reinsmen of the "old West," the Vaquaros. It's a very interesting book, and you can learn a lot from it. It says the bosal and snaffle were used together with four reins as one of the training steps. (It also says it took years to make a really good reining horse.)If any of you know of Sheila Varian, she trains her horses following the Vaquaro method.

btw - what the book refers to as a "reining horse" isn't today's reiner that does patterns in an arena; it was a really good working cow horse that moved as if the rider was only thinking the moves, instead of giving the horse visable cues.
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Sep 21, 2006 - 8:22 pm:

Sara,

would you be referring to the books by Ed Connell, Reinsman of the West, and Hackamore Reinsman?

These 2 are oldies but classics. Can't say I ever got the hang of the hackamore (bosal) and I have no desire to use a spade bit either, but interesting reading.

Of course I never spent mega dollars on the good bosals either, and they don't do the job if they aren't well made.
Member:
Stevens

Posted on Friday, Sep 22, 2006 - 10:03 am:

Like Angie, I could never get the hang of a riding with a bosal. I used my trainer's bosal and it was a good one, but my horse seemed to easily avoid it by ducking his head, he still ran through it. In retrospect, I probably wasn't using enough leg; again, sigh!

Anyway, I think the reason for 4 reins is that while a snaffle is good for turning, it doesn't provide much in the "stop" department. A curb bit with fixed shanks isn't great for turning, but properly used, can help you stop. The cowboy/Argentine/shanked snaffle seems a good middle ground but I think the real reason for 4 reins is to transition from one training phase (say snaffle only) to another (curb bit).

BTW: I showed in a loose-jaw, shanked snaffle, they are perfectly legal in the showpen if all the other criteria regarding bit thickness and shank length are met.

Another good book is Bits and Bitting Manual by William Langdon. It covers both Western and English bits and discusses how they work and the good and bad points. I just pulled mine off the shelf and lo and behold he says the bosal is "one of the best "headsdown" training tools" and is only a "fair rater", now I don't feel so bad!!

Chris
Member:
Dtranch

Posted on Friday, Sep 22, 2006 - 10:47 am:

Chris ... you are correct, but another difference is that the natural action of the snaffle will tend to raise the horses head, while the shanked curb will tend to bring it down. By combining the 2, you get the direct rein turn without encouraging the head to come up which is something you would have to correct later on some horses. Once the horse is trained to neck rein, I personally see no need for the combination ...
DT
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Friday, Sep 22, 2006 - 11:45 am:

I've always read that a properly adjusted curb that fits the horses mouth..meaning taking in to account his tongue thickness,and shape of his mouth, will lower the horses head and he will automatically bend at the pole just to keep the bit comfortable for himself. All that without the rider touching the reins.

I have a book called "Bits and Bridles, Power Tools for Thinking Riders" by Betsy Lynch, and Dwight Bennet, DVM. It seems to cover all kinds of bits, and also training tools you may not see much like the De Gogue, and the Chambon.

Funny, there are so many bits, but we always go back to a regular snaffle don't we? That is easier than trying to remember the other stuff....rate, the ratio formula, or whatever. See, I forgot it all again!!
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