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  Discussion on Bump on spine
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New Member:
Ellen66

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 - 11:17 pm:

I am a new member and enjoy reading all the topics. Now I have a question myself - I purchased and imported a stallion from Iceland in July 2006, he vetchecked ok three times; before purchase and when entering the USA and again when entering Canada. The first thing I noticed when he stepped out of the trailer was a bump on his spine, just before the lumbar region. First thought - his spine is "out", get a Rolfer ( a type of deep massage therapy that works on the muscle fascia and is very effective in rehabbing people as well as horses) to do some work on him. I had something like this on another stallion I imported a couple of years ago, and after a couple of sessions combined with back strengthening exercises the bump disappeared. Now this new stallion has had four sessions, lots of backstrengthening exercises, time to recover, and still no change.

At times there seems to be a bit of fluid and heat in the area, but most times it just is a plain bump, no pain reaction, not even a flinch when we palpate the area. We do not have an equine vet in our town, and the only large animal vet we have had a look at it. His theory is that the tip of the vertebrae could have been fractured and healed again, leaving this blemish, but not to worry " if the back has enough muscling, it won't interfere with riding."

Well, my concern is that the back does NOT have enough muscling, even after being in full training prior to import, being a couple of months off and then having regular ground work directed at stretching and strengthening the back. Maybe he is not using his back correctly because there might be some pain response when working? I did not do any work under saddle yet BTW, and will not back him before this issue is resolved.

The closest vet with a suitable X-Ray machine for more insight is over 8 h away and as we are close to winter here in the North I would find this drive to be too risky at this point. So, over the winter it means continuing to work on the exercises and try to get as many ideas about its cause as possible about what it could be. Any ideas here as to what could cause such a bump?

This horse BTW also is thin and seemingly does not use its food as it should; teeth have been done, dewormed regularly; he is on a weight gain feeding program with free choice grass hay, probiotics and high calorie/high fibre feeds, but rather puts on a big belly that indicates he cannot digest well what he is fed.

I am not sure if this is connected, but I have knowledge of one other horse that was skinny all the time, had such a bump, got worked on by an equine sports therapist, and afterwards not only had a straight spine, calmer attitude but also finally started to utilize her food better and put on weight. The explanation offered there was that some nerves that regulate gut activity are running through that spinal area, have been pinched/inhibted by some misalignment, and after being freed the calories finally could be used accordingly again as the nerves resumed their normal job.

I attached some pictures, it is hard to see properly, but gives an idea about the location, also it shows how he does lift his back when moving out. (as there is a limit on how many KB per mail, I will send them in separate mails).

Ellen
https://www.moondanceacres.com
New Member:
Ellen66

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 - 11:42 pm:

Picture of Kjalar's spine sideview
Kjalar sideview
New Member:
Ellen66

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 - 11:45 pm:

Picture of Kjalar's spine "aerial view"
Kjalar spine
New Member:
Ellen66

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 18, 2006 - 11:49 pm:

Kjalar Trot
Kjalar trot
New Member:
Peggyr1

Posted on Thursday, Oct 19, 2006 - 9:14 am:

Ellen, I have no information for you but wanted to say that Kjalar is just beautiful!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Oct 19, 2006 - 10:09 am:

Welcome Ellen,
He is an attractive horse. Bumps in this location are common and besides the usual list (that you can find at Diseases of Horses » Skin Diseases » Bumps / Nodules / Warts / Tumors » Overview of Bumps, Nodules, Warts & Tumors) you will also find in this location thickenings of the spinal dorsal processes ligaments or even exostosis or enlargements of the ends of the process itself. I find these quite common and rarely causing a problem.

Without any signs this bump is causing pain or lameness, and even if it was in some minor way, it would not responsible for your horse's overall condition. Your horse's belly response is normal to high fiber feeds which are inherently low in caloric density. Of course you can feed both but horses have a limited capacity for intake and a diet designed to be high in fiber is difficult to get also high in caloric density when looked at in total.

I suspect a good mouth exam with correction of any gross abnormalities, appropriate feeding and training, and a bit more time, and this will improve whether you do chiro, rolfing, or even sacrifice a few chickens . If the hay belly persists, which I cannot quite visualize in the images, and you find it undesirable you should decrease the forage and increase the caloric density, while checking that all other nutrients remain at acceptable levels in the feeding program. For more on this see, Horse Care » Equine Nutrition, Feeds, & Feeding » Equine Nutrition an Overview of Feeding Horses.
DrO
Member:
Caroltd

Posted on Thursday, Oct 19, 2006 - 10:42 am:

Ellen, He seems a lovely animal from your picture. Having a couple of hay bellies at my own farm...I'd take his condition in a minute. And don't mind Dr. O's suggestion on the chickens...he is always open to new therapies you know.
Member:
Maggienm

Posted on Thursday, Oct 19, 2006 - 1:20 pm:

Ellen, welcome, your boy is lovely.

As you can tell already the laughs are free around here.
chicken therapy roflol I'm still cackling!
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Thursday, Oct 19, 2006 - 1:42 pm:

Welcome to the HA, Ellen! Nice to see another member from Beautiful BC!
New Member:
Ellen66

Posted on Thursday, Oct 19, 2006 - 2:34 pm:

DrO - thank you for putting my worries at ease for the moment. I shall proceed to read the suggested topics. I shall not proceed with sacrificing chickens .

We live in the sparsely populated North West of BC, and have a lack of good veterinarian care and a lack of good dental care, not to speak of good farriers up here. My hands-on resources are limited.

Teeth was the first thing I thought about, and had him checked and floated by our large animal vet. Apparently there where only a few ridges and a slight tendency for a wavemouth; yet I doubt this was all of it. I had a mare that came to me a few years ago neglected and skinny, she was floated by this vet, didn't gain weight, and 4 months later looked at by the Dental vet, her first question was - did this horse ever have dental work done (?!). So, thinking about it, we might get some improvement in digestion after he gets his teeth done in spring by an expert , as every spring we manage to get a dental veterinarian up here.
That might take care of the haybelly, too, as the fibres will be easier to process if they are properly ground in the mouth first.

The haybelly is not on these pictures; these I took right after he arrived, and he was simply thin, a body condition score of 5 I'd say, which I would not mind with the right muscling, but he was simply thin without the right muscling, especially on the back, and it did not change much in three months. It would be futile to take a picture now as he already started to put on a fluffy wintercoat, which is cute, but doesn't show much details.

His feeding program is based on free choice good quality (high fibre) grass hay, additional daily feed includes 3 cups of beetpulp, 1.5 lb complete pellets per feed recommendation, 1 lb Alfalafa/Grass Cubes,high calorie fat based supplement per feed recommendation, Probiotics by feed recommendation and Dr. Reed minerals per feed recommendation. He weighs around 800 lb. Should I take this to another forum to discuss the feeding and how to up the calories? I thought he is pretty well at the max for high density feed for his weight?

Lori, Sue, Carol thanks for the friendly welcome!

Ellen
Member:
Ellen66

Posted on Thursday, Oct 19, 2006 - 3:09 pm:

Everybody, thanks for the nice comments about him. Yes I think he is an exceptionally well built Icelandic; he did score 8.15 for conformation (they get evaluated similar to the Warmblood system, and everything over 8 is considered very good, 9 is extremely rare and 10 unheard of). He is a good size for an Icelandic - 14hh- the color doesn't hurt either and he is lovely boy as well.

Now we need to solve the bump thing and get some weight and muscle on him. The plan was to start him in Endurance (LSD for the next year and then we'll see). Here he is under saddle (I am not the Rider, I am neither that tall nor }that skinny )

Kjalar Tolt\

https://www.moondanceacres.com
Member:
Oscarvv

Posted on Friday, Oct 20, 2006 - 8:11 am:

Hi Ellen -
He is a gorgeous horse.
One thing I always think of with a new horse is ulcers. I usually have them get Gastrogard the day they ship and give Neighlox their first week or until they settle in. Especially when they have travelled quite a distance. And I often will eventually give a Pancur Power Pac if their condition is not where I would like it.
-B
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Friday, Oct 20, 2006 - 11:54 am:

Hi Ellen

You mentioned above that a dental veterinarian comes up your way once a year. Can you PM me her name? You can reach me at sgrimm@qltinc.com.

Our local horse dentist has just been put out of business in BC thanks to the provincial veterinary lobby so I am interested in finding out who you use.

Many thanks
Sue
Member:
Ellen66

Posted on Friday, Oct 20, 2006 - 10:24 pm:

Sue, I'll mail you privately.

Barb - thanks for the tips. In our Breed it is so virtually unheard of to have ulcers, I totally did not even think about it. BUT, it well might be a possibility, who knows.

I shall google the suggested products, unless you have the time to give me some more info on them?

Cheers, Ellen
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