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New Member:
Sherrym

Posted on Saturday, Dec 14, 2002 - 8:07 am:

I sold a horse about two months ago to a family that wanted a gentle horse for their children. I have been around horses all of my life, I have barrel raced, rodeo, and even produced rodeos for about 5 years. I now sell horses, and specialize in gentle horses, for kids and beginners riders. I had a horse that was as gentle as any horse I have ever seen. I had rode the horse many times myself, as well as let children and beginners ride the horse. This horse was as bombproof as any horse I have ever seen. he was a sweetheart!
I sold the horse to a family. They came out and rode the horse twice before purchasing. The parents rode the horse as well as their 3 children ages 4 - 10. They even rode the horse double. The horse was perfect, the only issue that they had was the fact that the horse was a little lazy, and they thought the kids would get bored, if the horse was a slow poke.
They bought the horse and I had to board him for almost three weeks (for free) before they picked him up. The night before they picked up the horse I saddled him up and rode him just to make sure the horse had not "freshened up" after standing in a stall for 3 weeks. The horse was perfect, I let two little girls age 10 take turns riding the horse.
A couple of weeks after they bought the horse, they called me up and said the horse was acting differently. They said he was biting, and that they had only rode the horse once in a round pen and that the horse had his ears pinned and was grouchy! They also said they had not been riding the horse because they thought it was thin, so they had been trying to "fatten it up". I found out that they were graining the horse, I told them not to, and explained why, but he assured me that his girlfriend/wife new about horses and it was ok. The next time I talked to him about 2-3 weeks later, he said he rode the horse one more time in an open field and the horse just wanted to run, (which is almost unbelievable!) and was not suitable for his children, and he wanted his money back. He did say that they did not have anymore problems with the horse being grouchy or biting.
Well... the new owner was a complete jerk, was threatening me, etc. After a huge argument, I told him I was not going to give his money back, and he said ok.
Now I have been served papers, I am being sued for misrepresenting the horse. Now the say the horse is "wild" and bucks, bites, cow kicks, runsaway, etc. He is suing me for the price of the horse + vaccinations + feed and board for the horse for two months + filing fees, etc. In the legal papers, he has lied about some things and changed the story around. (Such as, over a phone conversation, he never said the horse has bucked, or was dangerous, he actually said the horse was suitable for him to ride, just not quiet enough for his kids) but now the papers say he is like a wild animal!
To avoid the lawsuit, I told him I would refund his money for the horse, but not the rest. He refused.
The new buyers were given a form with a bill of sale and 30 day soundness guaranteed that stated "this is a soundness guarantee only(lameness), not behavioral." It is a standard form I give all of my customers, I sign it, but I do not have a copy for myself. When he was asked why he did'nt include that form in his lawsuit, he would not answer, got furious and hung up, that is they last time we have spoken to him.
I need some advice, I have never been in a lawsuit, what do I do? The guy is very smart, and is a real jerk! The paperwork he gave me looks like he might be a lawyer, (he acts like one!) but says he is not licensed to practice law in the state I live in. He is not the plaintiff, he has taken his childrens two first names put toghether to make a name up for a plaintiff. He says he was just acting as an agent on behalf of the trust.
I have a picture of their 4 year old riding the horse the day they bought it, and a waiver with all of their signatures that was signed before all 5 of them rode the horse.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Saturday, Dec 14, 2002 - 8:42 am:

Hi, Sherry,
It sounds almost as if this fellow was looking for a lawsuit.
I looked for an e-mail address for Fiona Farrell who is a member of HA, but didn't find one. I imagine she will respond if she sees your post. I did find an e-mail address for:
ccooley@horse-attorney.com -- another member, so you may want to send an e-mail to her directly.
Holly
Member:
Lala

Posted on Saturday, Dec 14, 2002 - 12:42 pm:

Dear Sherry,

I wish I had a magic cure for you but I don't. Check your insurance policy and report this to your insurance agent -- you may be covered and they will hire lawyers to defend the suit.

If they do not, I suggest you consult with an attorney that is very experienced in litigation. Ask all sorts of questions on experience and maybe if anyone around knows this particular character. He may have pulled this stunt in other contexts. Ask about rates and expenses.

Mediation is always a good route to go if he is amenable to it.

If you tell me your state I may be able to come up with some names (not necessarily recommendations as I do not know everyone's work). If you are in Colorado you are in luck that is Catherine Cooley's state.

He sounds like he is trying classic intimidation techniques. You don't have a written contract but the fact that you have a disclaimer and the photo are good evidentiary pluses for you. You also are being faced with a classic claim of a horse behaving differently under a new owner's care -- this raises all sorts of causation problems for him and arguments on your behalf.

If he is not licensed to practice law in your state and is not suing in his own name there may be some other avenues you might pursue, depending on facts that are not in your posting here, of reporting him for the unauthorized practice of law -- however this is a very gray area.

Be of good heart, the fact that he got angry and hung up on you indicates to me that he has underestimated your savviness and that you touched a nerve. When I used to do a lot of multi-party litigation we always counted it as a good sign when people got angry (had to rationalize it some way) as it meant we were getting somewhere solid on behalf of our clients.

If you think you can talk reason with this man and you think this is an easily saleable horse and your carrying costs of taking the horse back are not too high, you might want to consider an offer of taking the horse back, him paying you board and after your sales commission giving him the remainder of the price paid for the horse by the new owner. But it sounds like he'd prefer to make life hellacious than be productive.

This is all Saturday stream of consciousness thoughts that do not rise to the level of legal advice. Please don't rely on my musings as legal advice but go and seek counsel locally.

Best of luck, whatver happend you do know there is a whole community of HA horsepeople lined up here for cyber moral support!!

Count me one of them, Fiona
Member:
Sherrym

Posted on Saturday, Dec 14, 2002 - 1:15 pm:

I live in AZ. I do not think my Insurance agent will cover it since I do not have business insurance. Only homeowners. I have offered to give his money back for the purchase price of the horse $1850, but he wants me to pay for all the expenses he has board/feed, vaccinations, filing fees, etc. He never contacted me with the problem until 5 weeks after he paid for the horse.
Member:
Oscarvv

Posted on Saturday, Dec 14, 2002 - 4:32 pm:


Sorry, I don't have any advice. But since you've been served, I think it would be in your best interest to contact an attorney or he is going to beat you at his game. What a jerk!
Member:
Penner

Posted on Saturday, Dec 14, 2002 - 4:37 pm:

I'm not a lawyer. But maybe these links may help..
Apparently, there are some laws that have been enacted in more than 1 state regarding horse issues.

Also, you may be able to email them to get names of attorneys in AZ that specifically deal in equine law.


https://www.law.utexas.edu/dawson/cases/laws/laws.htm

https://www.kentuckylaw.com/html/mgm_equine.html#Other%20Web%20Sites

AZ Revised Statutes: https://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/ars.htm
->I know of one, ARS 12-553, there may be more pertaining to the situation in general too.

Link to an Eq AZ Insurance Co (has general Equine liability articles - for future reference): https://www.eqgroup.com/eqref.htm

If you are the owner of the website I am thinking of, it seems to me you certainly try to be helpful & educate people on horse ownership.

Good luck to you, what a nightmare! :-(
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Saturday, Dec 14, 2002 - 5:23 pm:

I think you are in for a problem. This guy sounds like a real jerk. Something transpired within the family and he probably never wanted the horse in the first place, but acquiesced. I assume they are first time horse owners? He is probably looking for a way out.. found any little thing and bam...

You have the contract signed And you had it checked by an attorney to make sure its legal in your state?

Did anyone get hurt?

If he is out to win.... he is going to do everything in his power to make the horse what he said. SAD.

Your past experience and horse history are extremely important now. Get all sorts of signed affidavits from previous owners, sellers, friends-- on your expertise, knowledge, etc. It can't hurt to have people ready to come to your defense.

And write down everything he says... Taperecord if its legal... (I think you need to disclose)...

Good luck.

Ps. is there any way you can check up on the horse to make sure he isn't doing anything.
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Saturday, Dec 14, 2002 - 5:32 pm:

:-) i just reread your post....

So, they rode once in a 2 week period in a round pen only.... and grained the horse (probably too much).... sounds like the horse might have wanted to run... ALL that pent up energy...They are obviously not feeding it properly. And in fact are creating their own problems...

This is not your problem. Its their STUPIDITY.

You can try to mediate with a feeding program/schedule and exercising program and see if that helps.... I mean c'mon they got the horse, don't feed it properly and it goes loopy from all the energy and then they want to blame it on you.. LOL

Boy am i getting cynical in my posts....:-)

Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Dec 15, 2002 - 10:42 am:

Not you joj, please say it ain't so!

Sherry your post clearly puts you on the right side of the moral and, I think, legal side of the issue. But a lawyer familiar with this type litigation and local laws needs to be contacted. It may be a letter alone from such a person to the plantiff (the nicest word I could come up with) would cool his jets: so far as I can see he is just trying to scare you and his unwillingness to just return the horse would make me set my heels. Be careful about saying anything more to this guy. I am interested in one aspect: how old is this horse?
DrO
Member:
Penner

Posted on Sunday, Dec 15, 2002 - 4:05 pm:

Hi,

Been thinking some more (the sound of this guy really galls me!)

Anyway, I don't know what your financial situation is but if you need help, there are legal aid clinics associated with law schools (& the Univ of Arizona has a Law School) sometimes free, sometimes reduced fees. So contact the Univ of Arizona Law School.

Also contact the AZ State Bar Association, & the Maricopa County Bar Association to see if they know of any other ones (legal aid type clinics) or lawyers that might handle these things on a reduced fee basis.

UA Law School:
https://www.law.arizona.edu/sitemap.html

State Bar of Arizona:
https://www.azbar.org/

Maricopa Bar Assn:
https://www.maricopabar.org/

Hope this helps!
Member:
Sherrym

Posted on Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 - 8:38 am:

Hey everyone, I have been away for the holidays, I appreciate all of your help. To answer a few questions... The horse is 10 years old, and NO, no one has been hurt. I believe that they are first time horse owners, but he did know how to properly tack up the horse, and he knew the basic riding commands. He did tell me that his wife had previous experience, and she was the one that said it was fine to grain the horse. That is his reason for suing me - that since he was a inexperienced horse person, that he relied on my guidance and trusted my opinion. They say that the horse is not suitable for the purpose intended by the plaintiff, and that I breached my duty to inform the plaintiff that the horse may actually be dangerous for a child. He claims that my actions were wanton or reckless, showed spite or ill will, and demonstrated a reckless indifference to the interest of others, specifically small children. They suit says that the horse 1. runs away when approached to bridle. 2. Cow kicks when groomed in the belly area. (Flank) 3. Bites without provocation (which he told me is now no longer a problem) 4.Bolts and runs away without provocation when ridden. I have now found out that the horse was only ridden twice in the first 7 weeks after the new owners purchased the horse. (not sure about now, I do not believe he is being ridden) I have a paralegal helping me, I would love to hire a lawyer, but at this point he is only trying to sue me for $2450 and I get the horse back. I also was surprised when I realized that this was not through a small claims court, but through The Superior Court! (which everyone thinks is ridiculous!) The complaint against me is for Misrepresentation, Common Law Fraud, Statutory fraud, Breach of warranty for a Particular Purpose. (Even though there was never any warranty of any type except against lameness.)He does have it written up that he will keep charging me $5.00 per day for board, and even though that he is not a lawyer, he values his legal time in excess of $150.00 per hour, is entitled to punitive damages, and legal costs. So I guess the longer that this drags out, the more $ he will ask for.
I do not want everyone to think that I do not make things right with my customers. I have in the last 6 months had two people that purchased horses from me, that did have some problems. One horse became barn sour with a timid rider, the other was a little to responsive to leg pressure, and kept wanting to go faster when they would tight leg the horse at a trot. Both customers were complete beginners and they both contacted me within the first couple of days of having the horses, and I did gladly trade them for another horse. Both people are now completely satisfied. One has even purchased a second horse, the other has sent me a great thank you letter, and loves the new horse.
Anyways, back to the lawsuit. So the person suing me calls me on Christmas Day, (he is so nice, lol) and is laughing, and tells me that the AZ Republic is doing an article on the story, and tells me that I should just pay him his money now, and he will stop the article! And have a nice day of course! So I call the newspaper, it is true, there is an article! It seems that the reporter was so surprised to see to see a suit of this nature, and small value, in the Superior Court, that he wants to do an article! The reporter got my side of the story, and also contacted some local horse trainers for some advice and their opinions, since he does not know about horses. Now it seems the tables have turned, and the Plaintiff, is now not so glad that there will be a story. In fact he has declined to go through with his scheduled photoshoot with the horse (but that is ok because the reporter asked me for the photo of the mans 4 year old son on the horse) so I emailed it to him today. I also was told that the reporter is now having trouble with the plaintiff, that the plaintiff told him that his attorney analyzed the phone conversation, and they have decided that he is a bad reporter! The reporter assured me he would to his best to make the article fair. He also told me good luck, that in all of his 25 years of reporting, no one has ever done that, and he wishes me luck.
I also have since found out that the plaintiff has sued over 15 people in the last few years! I was nice enough to share this info with the reporter also. He also did the research to confirm that.
I will try to contact a lawyer today, I will keep everyone updated. I have put it off too long, I have been wrapped up in the Holidays.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 - 9:25 am:

Wow, Sherry.
I'm sorry you are having to go through all this crap, especially around Christmas time. It sure is an education for the rest of us, though, and makes better reading than any news article from THE INQUIRER! I trust that Truth will win out in the end. Have a very blessed New Year, and best wishes on your horse business. This looks like it could be working out to be great advertising for you!
Holly
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 - 9:43 am:

defaultValue a ?? ?ur hands... Do you have the documentation that he has sued so many others? if not get it... That would have been my next question... You see, there are certain people in the world who just love to fight and love to sue, it seems you got unlucky to meet one...

It seems he didn't think it through and his rage got the best of him.. Contacting a reporter... puleese. I hope the little kid of his was smiling while on the horse... And they print it really big..

Good luck sherry!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Dec 28, 2002 - 11:16 am:

Thanks for the update Sherry and we will be pulling for you.
DrO
Member:
Sherrym

Posted on Thursday, Jan 9, 2003 - 1:02 am:

I'm back for an update. The article came out in the newspaper, I didn't really care for it. The reporter did tell both sides but left out a lot of important info. It was pretty much my word against his, and after all who would believe a horsetrader, lol? He did not allow the picture of his grandson to be printed, nor did they mention that they had even rode the horse before purchasing.
The good news is.... I was contacted by several people that saw the article that called to warn me that this is a really bad guy!!! (I guess that is good news?)I was even called by his stepdaughter, and I couldn't even start to tell you all of the scams, and lawsuits this guy has been in! They all say "he's at it again!" Everything from homes burning down,(including his own) to him poisoning dogs, putting sugar in gas tanks, die in swimming pools, nails in driveways, breaking windows, etc. They said he has tried to sue over a horse deal years ago, and did successfully sue a person he bought a dog from, claiming it became vicious. His step daughter is a paralegal who is sending me a bunch of info on his past including the current indictment with all of the felony counts of money laundering, fraudulent schemes. I was told it is an alternative fuel case. One of the guys that was indicted with him was a lawyer! His step daughter says she is afraid of him, and she does not want him to know where she lives. Two different people that called me, including her says he is not the inexperienced horseperson he is claiming, but they owned horses for 20+ years. They offered to give me statements proving it.
I was also called by another person who came out to my house to look at the same horse, but I had just sold him. (They were very disappointed, and really wanted the horse after watching the kids ride the horse) This couple did watch the other family that is suing me ride the horse for over an hour and the guy says he will go to court and testify, saying the horse was perfect, and is also calling the newspaper for me to tell them he witnessed the whole family take turns riding the horse, even the kids rode the horse double. He said he will call every department of the paper if necessary!
The best news is I was called this morning by a lawfirm who had beat this guy in a large suit and they are helping me with my case for free! (or at least they are looking over the suit and my response, and said they will file an amendment, or motion to dismiss) They said they "kicked his but", and they have a judgment against him for $70,000, but he has filed bankruptcy to get out of it. They called me to warn me about how bad this guy is, and tell me about his alias names, and even said this guy has pulled a gun on a cop before!
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Thursday, Jan 9, 2003 - 5:16 am:

Jeesh, Sherry!! LOL I just KNOW there is a movie deal in here somewhere!! This could be a goldmine for you !!
Holly
Member:
Chrism

Posted on Thursday, Jan 9, 2003 - 1:08 pm:

Unbelievable. If we saw this on TV we'd say, "not possible - nobody does that!!!"

How can one protect themselves from such legal abuse????

Good luck. Sounds like you have people on your side.
Member:
Tmo0hul

Posted on Thursday, Jan 9, 2003 - 2:54 pm:

You know, I've been watching this post, thankful that nothing ridiculous has happened to us. Now today, come to find out that one of the vets that our farm uses is trying to sue us for slander! Dr. A (we'll call him) has been fleecing the owner and previous manager with double and triple farm call charges (he charges a farm call fee for each of the barns he enters on the property), vaccinations that were completely unnecessary (4-6 sets of full vaccinations per horse each year), nevermind all the misdiagnosis. Neither the owner or old manager were horse knowledgable, so they never argued the bill or thought anything was abnormal in all the excessive fees. In a boarder meeting we indicated that we would be changing vets, but each boarder could choose to keep their individual vets (including Dr A). We did not even indicate who we would choose as the new vet. Well, somehow Dr. A heard that we didn't like his services, so he's threatning to sue us for slander..... I'm sure that we didn't say anything slanderous, matter of fact I had actaully contacted a lawyer last year in attempt to sue him for gross negligence and malpractice, but I decided to chalk it up to incompitence and let it go. I know that he is seeing his cash cow dissappear and is scared that he will actually have to WORK (I think the farm has paid him in excess of 100K in 2 years with no major illnesses or injuries). Thanks for listening - I just had to vent!! Just another hassle to deal with due to greed.....
Member:
Cartlett

Posted on Thursday, Jan 9, 2003 - 3:35 pm:

Wow!
Sherry, scary stuff. If this guy truely pulled a gun on a cop, then be careful. It is interesting that his step daughter has bad things to say about him.

Go get him girl. Don't let the "B" get away with this.

Carol
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Thursday, Jan 9, 2003 - 4:05 pm:

omg! It's amazing how evil people can be!!

Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jan 10, 2003 - 5:37 am:

Sherry, sounds like this guy needs a enforced vacation behind bars, but be careful he sounds poetentially dangerous.

Christy, document the abuse and present it to your state veterinary medical board. The trip fee thing could just be (bad) policy but knowingly giving a horse 6 tetanus shots a year is arguably malpractice.
DrO
Member:
Ldodson

Posted on Monday, Jan 13, 2003 - 1:39 pm:

Sherry,
All I can say is, you go girl! Sounds like you've got a lot of good people on your side. It also sounds as if this guy is a nut case. I think a restraining order might be a good idea. Please keep us posted. You've got a lot of emotional support and sounds like you've got physical support too! You're in our thoughs and prayers. Linda Davis
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