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Discussion on Riding Instructor says weight is an issue
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Member:
Bara
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Posted on Monday, Aug 18, 2003 - 2:48 pm:
Three months ago I started taking english riding lessons. When I first called this woman I told her that I had a fear of riding and that my weight had gotten out of control at 210. Im only five foot two. I had to gain back my riding from a bad fall 2 years earlier.My weight is coming off too. She said she had a horse I could ride and that everything was ok.
Well the horses she has are old and overworked to the point that I never got my saddle off that she wasnt putting another saddle on for another rider.
no brush down, cool off, nothing, its 90 degrees here.
Then I get emails cancelling my classes and telling me that she can only put light riders on her horses because they are limping and acting off balance and that heavier riders are not good for them right now.
I told her I would find another school and that any horses that are overworked will wan in performance no matter what the weight of the rider is. Am I right, or is my weight an issue. I rode the horses. Different ones mind you, only once a week. Does she have a problem with big people. I was the only one getting mails and my name was never on any lessons that needed made up when she cancelled. She always sent out mails to students with makeup times. I was cancelled alot.
Am I wrong in my feelings as Ive never had my weight hold me back from other things.I am building a boarding stable of my own and I just want to tell other stable owners that I will look at this picture and try not let it happen to someone else in the future. Frustrated and Hurt a Little.
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Member:
Swarnick
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Posted on Monday, Aug 18, 2003 - 6:30 pm:
Kristin,
Your weight is the least of it and many male riders far exceed the weight you stated. If her horses are lame it's no doubt due to poor care or animals that should be retired, not rider weight. As you stated the weight is coming off and riding does help muscle tone and general fitness so you are apparently doing all the right things. Whatever the stable owner's issue is is not of importance. Give your business to someone who wants it. Don't let some ignorant person's bias keep you from doing what you love.
Shirley
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Member:
Cassey
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Posted on Monday, Aug 18, 2003 - 9:44 pm:
Unsound horses "limp and act unbalanced" even without a rider on their back, so she is passing the buck here. Maybe she realizes that you are noticing the condition of the horses, and doesn't want a witness. If you feel these horses are being mistreated, please report it to the appropriate authorities.
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Member:
Gemtwist
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Posted on Monday, Aug 18, 2003 - 11:13 pm:
Hi Kristin,
I absolutely agree with the others. 210lbs is nothing compared to some of people I've seen riding sound and happy horses. Rule of thumb I've always been told is that on the flat a horse can handle 30% of its own weight and 20% of its own weight over fences safely. Basically the math says you could weigh 333lbs and ride a 1000lb horse (pretty average size) without doing injury.
The woman is obviously uninformed and trying to blame other people for what is her own doing. Go to a barn that will appreciate the positive things you are doing.
If it helps, I'm 5'8" and started at 318lbs. I'm now down to 265lb and never once has the horse I ride been lame or back sore. My horse is a 20 year old quarter horse mare, so it's not like she's a spring chicken either. Don't let ignorance stand in your way. Don't get hurt, get mad and stay in the saddle!
Nancy
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2003 - 3:06 am:
I'm going to get killed here but... we actually ask American tourists what their weight is when they ring up looking to go riding because of their tendency to heaviness.
Otherwise you don't have the right horses in for them when they arrive into the yard. We don't need to do this with other nationalities as they would tell us if they were heavy, volunteering the information.
It's not the heavyness that's the problem, it's the apparent difficulty with realising that information needs to be given in order to provide an appropriate mount which seems to be a peculiarly American thing and somehow tied into political correctness issues.
This is clearly not the problem with Kristin as she told the barn owner her weight. I'm just saying it is a problem for us that we have to look out for...
All the best
Imogen
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2003 - 8:25 am:
Imogen prompted a memory...Several years back, my husband and I went to Scotland for vacation. We (I )wanted to trail ride around Loch Ness. The stable did ask us our weight. My husband is 200 lbs...not heavy at 6'4" tall. However, the stable wouldn't let him ride as it wasn't so much his weight but the fact that as a novice rider, he wouldn't be able to balance the weight correctly over the horse.
He ended up hiking around the Loch on his own and I had the most wonderful trail ride of my life...bummer that I couldn't share it with my husband!
Regardless of all other factors, it sounds like the barn where you were riding wasn't run with integrity...either towards the horses or to its customers. Find a place that treats the customers and horses well and you'll be much better off. Good Luck!
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Member:
Chrism
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2003 - 10:53 am:
I know you are actually weighed if you want to ride a mule down the Grand Canyon and they have a max weight limit. Can't remember what it is, but thankfully, I passed, ;O) They weigh you with clothing and boots/shoes on!
Cheers.
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Member:
Bara
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2003 - 11:47 am:
Thank you all for your input and Im sure the weight is checked on the grand canyon mules because
of not going on flat terrain and as in the later comment with the lady in scotland. Alot of heavier people are unbalanced. My husband is and is 235 and 5ft 10in. Mules can carry packs up to 200 plus weight but the packs are evenly distributed and balanced.
I would not even have a problem with that situatuon and I appreciate the information on that.
All positive inputs telling me to go on I thank you all too. I do intend to go on riding.
As for reporting her for neglect. It would be hard as the horses look in excellent sound condition until they start moving. Most of the ignorant Humane Society people here would give her a passing grade. The comment that I was noticing it (the lameness) more and more is true. She didnt feel threatened but ask what to do. I gave her advice I hope shell follow but keeping riders off of them for awhile I sincerely doubt she will. She gets these horses donated thru a therapeutic riding program and wont spend money on any horses to give them a break. I guess I could complain to them. Ill consider it. But to use my weight as an excuse I just couldnt keep going back to that humiliation. Ive never been descriminated like that. Not to my knowledge. Not so obvious. I will go on riding and thanks so much for your comments it really helped me to go on. best wishes, kristin
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Member:
Oscarvv
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2003 - 7:03 pm:
Kristin
I am sorry you have had to go through this.
It's hard to say what this woman's problem is. If she is overworking lame horses you are better off without her. It's very sad that she is teaching lessons but is asking how to care for her horses.....
Best of luck, you deserve better  ....and so do her horses.
~Barbara
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Member:
Jcsmoon
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 21, 2003 - 10:32 am:
Kristin-
I have personally seen larger riders than you be gracefull, and whipitts of 100 lbs soar a horse in 5 minutes. To a certain degree, weight is only realitive to the ability of the person to ride properly and in a balanced fashion. If you were taking lessons then it is up to your instructor to FIRST AND FOREMOST help you develop a supple, relaxed, balanced seat. I would seek out a more professional and knowledgeable instructor and also do your home work out of the saddle to make things easier. I would suggest splitting your lessons, at first, between mounted lessons alternateing with some type of flexibility/balance discipline (yoga, tae chi, etc). But definatly do not return to this barn, search for a more sutible trainer, they are out there.
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New Member:
Kimbrly3
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 27, 2003 - 4:12 am:
I just had to put my two cents in here. It looks like an older thread.
I'm right at 200lbs and both my horse carry me just fine all over the place on trails and flat land. My horses are not in the greates shape, but when I do go out for a trail ride sometimes they are pretty hard. Depending on how my horses are doing will dictate a reseting period or me hiking with them. But that's not because of my weight, but more for their physical shape at that time. My Anglo Arab is 15.2 and my Quarter horse is just a smidge under 15 hands.
Print out this thread and send it to her. She is wrong! If her horses are lame, they need rest and healing time. If they are old, they may need less riding time period or retirement altogether.
It's not your fault and get out there and ride and don't let someone's ignorance stop you from riding or anything!
If you were in Portland, OR. I would let you ride come my healthy horses!
Take care!}
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 27, 2003 - 2:20 pm:
Kristin, the lady is a joke. I wouldn't waste my time with her.
That said, more than 180 lbs is a lot of weight for an average horse to handle. I do not believe it can hurt the animal, but it makes riding very unpleasant for them.
I wouldn't take a 200 lbs person hunting for the weekend, nor would I put a heavy or imbalanced person on the same horse every day, because I believe it would make that horse sour, not sore. But any rider, no matter what the level, weight or mentality, should be accomodated in a school. That's what schools are for. And horses may make a face and move a bit unhappily with the extra weight or the imbalance, but they shouldn't go lame!
What you say about the load being evenly distributed, hence easier on pack animals is not correct. Any beginner past, say, his fifth lesson is easier for the horse than a load of the same weight.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 27, 2003 - 2:34 pm:
I will admit something here, for your amusement, though true.
My only holdback in heavy people riding with me is that I pity my saddles, not the horses. Ridiculous as it is, I never got over it. But that never kept me from regurarly inviting some extremely heavy friends for a ride.
Just so that you realise what ridiculous things one's head may contain sometimes...
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Member:
Westks
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 27, 2003 - 3:37 pm:
IF YOU ARE SAYING 200 LBS IS TOO MUCH WEIGHT FOR A HORSE YOU ARE SAYING MOST MEN 6 FEET TALL ARE TOO HEAVY TO RIDE A HORSE!
Smaller horses handle heavier weights much better than taller longer backed horses.
Whomever among you who thinks 200 lbs is too much for a horse to handle and stay sound and enjoyable for the horse need to do a whole bunch of research before you discriminate.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 27, 2003 - 5:54 pm:
Janette,
I weigh 165 lbs, at 6'2", and I need a heavy hunter to take me through the weekend. My wife weighs 105 lbs and joins the hunt on any horse.
For backyard riding or lessons of 1-2 hours, I agree, rider's weight shouldn't be a problem and definitely not a soundness issue.
Are you saying that a 900 lbs horse carries an adult man easier than a 1200 lbs horse? Or that a taller horse has a weaker back? An Arab handling weight better than a Shire?
I do say that more than 200 lbs is difficult and unpleasant for an average horse to carry for a whole day, say 6-7 hours in the saddle, even on a flat trail. Add some uphill work, some jumps and a couple of gallops and you can forget about it, especially on a small horse.
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Member:
Westks
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 28, 2003 - 1:44 am:
I got this information from an article in Horse Illustrated several years ago they had several well respected people quoted in the article I looked and think I threw the issue away.
Also donkeys carried out twice their weight in silver and gold down rocky cliff edge trails for years and i'm sure they weren't packed evenly on each side.
If you think about it it makes sense the shorter back would be stronger and leg strength is built up over time.
I SAID NOTHING ABOUT A TALLER HORSE EXCEPT THAT THEY USUALLY HAVE A LONGER BACK !
ARAB's handle weight better than just about any other breed, for their SIZE.
And NO a shire is bred and built for heavy weight and heavy work DUH!
If a horse is NOT used to 200 lbs yes it would be a hard workout if worked 6 hours first time carrying that weight, but if offerring trail rides and riding lessons the horse should be supple and condition for up to 300 lbs if you want to be fair and non discriminate.
All riding lesson and trail horses should be worked and conditioned to prevent injury, and that means you have them supple and strong to handle just about any scenario.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 28, 2003 - 9:25 am:
A commonly accepted rule of thumb is that horses can be conditioned to carry 1/3 of their weight safely, I like to keep it closer to 1/4 myself. I am not sure the rule would be different for a Shire than an Arab but one thing for sure the Shire will outwork the Arab in the short run but the Arab will outlast the shire over distance at speed.
DrO
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 28, 2003 - 12:25 pm:
Dear Janette,
Nobody is discriminating against heavy people in this thread, especially me.
But overweight riders should accept that their weight is extra tax on a hard working school or trail horse and the operators of the business do have the right to dislike it.
Saying that 100 lbs extra weight do not make a difference for a horse that works several hours a day for it's oats is incosiderate in my opinion.
I am happy to regularly invite some seriously overweight friends for riding. Yet, though our horses are well conditioned athletes, we always arrange it so it is not the day before or after hard work. They understand that their weight implies limitations and they do not consider it discrimination.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 28, 2003 - 12:34 pm:
One more thing, Janette,
A donkey still standing with, say, 1000 lbs on it's back is something I do not believe.
And I have been working with some pretty tough donkeys and mules...
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Member:
Westks
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 28, 2003 - 12:43 pm:
CHRISTO I DON'T CARE IF YOU BELIEVE ME THAT IS IN THE HISTORY BOOKS
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 28, 2003 - 12:43 pm:
Doctor,
I always thought that Arabs have a carrying "limit" of 180 lbs. Heavier than that, their legendary endurance seems to deteriorate faster than other breeds.
I may be wrong, as I only have experience with questionable half-bloods. Any clarification here will be mostly appreciated.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Dec 29, 2003 - 5:32 am:
I know of no such carrying limit Christos nor particular short coming in the Arab breed with weight and know several large Arabs that carry large people. However if you are asking will he carry a 100 lb person further and faster than a 200 lb person, there is no doubt of it.
DrO
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Monday, Dec 29, 2003 - 8:22 am:
Clear, Doctor, thanks.
I had the false impression that Arabs are no good carrying big people.
All Arab lovers, please forgive me.
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Member:
Norto
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 3, 2004 - 11:28 am:
I ride endurance on a 900 lb 15 hand Arab. With tack, I weigh in at 225 lbs. I worried constantly about my weight and was told to go look up the 100 mile Tevis race records and found that quite a few of the winners of this strenous race were carrying up to 35% of their weight.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 3, 2004 - 7:33 pm:
This thread put me in thoughts, so we experimented a bit during the holidays.
We took two very different mares on a 20 km test ride. One is 900 lbs, the other 1200 lbs. Riders were my wife, 105 lbs, and our baker, 260 lbs. The horses were allowed to set in their individual tempo. We recorded all condition data as detailed as possible, including weighing the horses on a scale, before and after the ride.
A week later we repeated the ride, only switching riders, so the small horse was carrying the heavy guy. Though both horses completed the ride a bit faster, we were amazed not to find differences in their condition or recovery rates to those recorded on the previous ride.
It seems that rider's weight plays no significant role over flat distance.
We are planning now to see how a heavier rider will affect the horse's condition after jumping or sprinting, as well as extending the first test to two 15km rides.
Weather permitting, this winter is becoming very interesting...
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Member:
Penner
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 4, 2004 - 11:46 am:
Hi,
This is an interesting discussion, & one I've read many times on various boards. To my knowledge,its the endurance people who have done the most study on rider wgt (& the only ones I can find at all).
It seems they have found that horse body condition is important (in finishing), but rider wgt is not. Heres a link to Susan Evans Garlinghouse, DVM, MSc who is an endurance person & who does these Tevis Cup studies:
THE INFLUENCE OF BODY MEASUREMENTS AND CONDITION SCORE ON PERFORMANCE RESULTS DURING THE 1998 TEVIS CUP: https://www.shady-acres.com/susan/tevis98.shtml
1995-96 Tevis Weight and Body Condition Score study: https://www.shady-acres.com/susan/tevis95-96.shtml
How good these are, I don't know really, but they are the only ones I could find. Maybe someone else has more.
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Member:
Cindylou
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 4, 2004 - 8:00 pm:
What impresses me about this thread is Christos willingness to see if his opinion is factually based. I am an overweight rider- not obese-but very conscious about my weight. I have large horses- 1200 lbs and would not consider riding a smaller horse- just doesn't feel right. I will say- the riders seat is more impactful than the weight. I truly believe that. I have seen riders little over 100 pounds pound my horses back- becuase they have no seat-and see my horse's displeasure--because they don't feel the horse under them. Having said that- my goal is to lose weight- for myself and for my horse- because I will be a better,healthier rider- and my horse will be carrying less- that has to better for both of us!
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Monday, Jan 5, 2004 - 5:13 am:
Well, Cindy, I have to.
Most of the things I know about horses have been passed through generations in a rather traditional way. That brings along superstitions and misconceptions, which I unavoidably carry. But I'm working on it...
For the rider pounding on the horse now, I think a healthy and experienced horse can accomodate this, if it is allowed to. Most school horses do that for a living. The biggest problem is that a pounding rider will hold the reins stiff and grip with his legs at the same time, thus forcing the horse into tension. And you are right, a tense horse can be very easily destroyed by an incompetent rider of any weight.
That is exactly the reason I absolutely insist that any beginner should lounge to an independent seat before touching the reins for the first time.
Penner, thanks for the links. I've been trying to find this data for some weeks now...
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