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Discussion on Horse training ethics
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New Member:
Ladera
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 28, 2003 - 12:11 am:
I have chosen to learn to ride late in life. At my first barn I realized the trainer was unsound when she had switched my 7 year old ten times in a group lesson.Both my youngest and I were riding at this barn.
I was new at this sport and decided the best way to choose a barn was to watch their lessons at three different times. I thought it was important to watch the trainers, horses and clients.
We are now at a different barn for three years .I love the trainers at this barn . My problem is the barn manager. IS it normal for the barn manager to borrow from Peter to pay Paul? Is it normal to be billed for the trainers housing and food at away shows? Is it normal to submit blank checks to cover show costs? My husband flipped out when I told him about the blank checks.I now write in an educated guess for fees and pay the balance after the show is done.
I am curious to know show policies at your location.
I 'm thinking maybe I chose a wrong barn and need to include how they handle their shows.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 28, 2003 - 8:53 am:
Hello Jean, as long as there are well understood prior agreements among all the parties involved, anything goes. Of course you have the right to decide whether you will accept the arrangements.
DrO
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 28, 2003 - 11:31 am:
Jean, every ''show'' barn is different with different rules and costs... it is very important to get all this info in writing before the show season... it is VERY common for all billings of the away shows,of the trainer, be split between all the participants of that show from your barn.. it can get very costly.. at the local shows, again the rule applies but without lodging... we used to bring breakfast / lunch/ snacks to the shows to cut the cost of outside lunches.. the trainers enjoyed this... but, you will still have to pay for her being there to coach you for the day...
horses are not cheap and showing is a whole nother ball game... $$%$%%
but enjoy... Ann
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Member:
Westks
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 28, 2003 - 12:23 pm:
Jean,
IF THE ONLY REASON A TRAINER IS AT A SHOW IS TO SHOW YOUR HORSE ONLY, YES YOU SHOULD PAY ALL EXPENSES FOR THE TRAINER TO DO THAT, AS WELL AS, TRAINING SHOWING FEE.
IF TRAINER IS SHOWING SEVERAL HORSES AT A SHOW THOSE EXPENSES SHOULD BE SPLIT EVENLY AMONG ALL THE HORSE OWNERS.
WHY SHOULD TRAINER HAVE TO PAY TO DO WORK FOR YOU AND MOST SERVICES OF ANY KIND GET PAID FOR MEALS AND ROOM, WHEN OVER NIGHT TRAVEL IS INVOLVED.
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Member:
Ladera
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 28, 2003 - 7:19 pm:
I believe Dr. Oglesby correctly stated my problem. There are no understood prior agreements. I always ask how much are the expenses. I don't expect anything as a discount. I am told the cost will be six hundred and I receive a bill for 1385. The math on the sheet never adds up.
I am not alone in this grip. I would prefer to know the whole picture before making the choice. I always pay my bills, tip the grooms, and buy food, coffee and cases of water. I do my share of flipping burgers and feeding the grooms and staff at our home shows.
My peeve is that there are no full disclosures. How would you like it if you are told the cost is 2 thousand and you receive a bill for 5 thousand.
There is more to this picture.
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Member:
Hoositer
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 28, 2003 - 8:18 pm:
Ummmmm, I do not show, but have been to many Arabian and open shows here in Oklahoma and I must agree that expenses must be borne by the horse owners. However, I do agree that an honest and fair estimate of the cost to show at whatever event be given to all prospective clients of the stable. I have heard from several acquaintenances that some stables and trainers "lowball" an estimate and then tack on numerous additions ex post facto. This is not ethical, moral or good business practice.
I would suggest that you sit with the trainer, stable manager or whomever is the contracting entity and sign a contract. It can be simple and short, but will put some bounds on the professionals that are "coaching" their clients.
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Member:
Damron
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Posted on Monday, Dec 29, 2003 - 8:13 am:
In any field where clients are expected to cover a service provider's costs of accommodation, transport, meals and incidentals, it is usual and customary for the service provider (here, the trainer) to submit receipts to substantiate the actual costs incurred. In my experience, this is not the case in the horse showing business for the most part. Jean, I encourage you to request verification of the trainer's expenses in the form of receipts, cancelled checks, credit card statements and the like. This is not an unreasonable request.
Loretta
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Member:
Canyon28
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Posted on Monday, Dec 29, 2003 - 4:36 pm:
I have several horses in training and one being shown. I expect my trainer to be honest when dividing up the costs of his trips, which include a day fee for showing, the stall fees, the entry fees, and mileage charges for hauling to out of town shows. BTW, my trainer pays for these things out of his own pocket and bills me later, unless it is entry and stall fees for shows that we enter well in advance. I think it is not too much to ask your trainer to provide some receipts, just to keep them honest. As I have found out, there are many many dishonest and down right abusive and awful people out there that claim to be 'professional' horse trainers. What would really gripe me is if this trainer is hauling your horse all over and not placing or winning any classes. I had that happen to me a few years ago,and I will never allow it again. The horse was not ready to show, mainly because the trainer was not qualified to train her in her discipline, although he assured me he was. So he was hauling her all over the place to lots of shows, at my expense, and to the poor horse's detriment. He did get a few pts on her,but he should have had many many more , from the number of shows she was taken to. During this time he was also abusing her, and hid the injuries from me. I think there are many many more poor or marginal trainers than there are good ones. I have a good one now, but I have had four others that were not so good, and the one that was downright terrible and abusive.
My poor abused mare finally recovered her trust of me, after a year or so at home, but she has permanent injuries that keep her from ever being shown again. Good luck to you and I would say good bye to this "trainer", asap. It sounds like much of their problem is poor business practices, which are also a major problem with many trainers.
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Member:
Canyon28
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Posted on Monday, Dec 29, 2003 - 4:38 pm:
I meant to also add, that my trainer itemizes my bills, so I know exactly what I was charged for. He even credits me for lost riding days when he is away at a show when my horse is staying at home.
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