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  Discussion on Sending horse for training
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Posted on Sunday, May 7, 2000 - 8:23 am:

I sent my pony to be trained at what I was told was a very fine establishment. She was supposed to be there for 2 months and would come back walking, trotting and cantering quietly. It's the end of 2 months and she isn't even off the line yet and they want to keep her longer but their rate is quite high and I can't afford to keep her there indefinitely......do I have any recourse?

Posted on Sunday, May 7, 2000 - 8:54 am:

Michele, your post hit a soft spot with me.
Pull your horse out of there. Find a new trainer!
There are plenty of honest ones out there.
I believe it is so easy for trainer's to take your money and then NOT work your horse. What do we horse owners know anyway? I had a trainer that was suppose to work with my horse 6 times a week for three months. She never made any promises but I trusted her. I had no idea how quickly a horse would learn, and this particular horse who is now working with another trainer says he is incredibly smart and quiet. VERY easy to train.
After 90 days, he hardly knew the cue to walk forward! Without any written agreement, I had to walk away and finish his training myself....that is, until I found a new trainer who is wonderful.
"above the board" honest, and I am so grateful!

Posted on Monday, May 8, 2000 - 10:02 am:

Michele,
I agree with Denise---bring your pony home or take her to another trainer. Have they not ridden her at all? In some states, Texas for one, verbal contracts are binding so if you wanted to pursue the matter through small claims court, I suppose you could. You would have to prove that what had been promised was not done. But if you decided to do that, I'd certainly have the pony out from under their roof before proceeding.
I sure understand your frustration... I had a couple of similar incidents years ago---one where I took a nice filly I'd been riding for six months to a Quarter Horse trainer for "finishing", and after the first six weeks I found out no one had even been on her yet. (I took her home that day)... Another time I had a Palomino filly in training with some high-profile Palomino trainers who happened to be out-of-state. They were also supposed to be "hauling to all the major shows" and showing this filly some for me. Some shows she placed in and other shows she didn't, which I didn't think odd, but I found out years too late that they had billed me (and I paid) for some shows they didn't even attend!
These, and a few other experiences with trainers who were honest but not as competent or interested in the horses' comfort as I'd hoped (I'm not a big fan of bloody sores anywhere on a horse), caused me to abandon the use of outside trainers completely, though I know there have got to be some good ones out there. Maybe your pony's next trainer will be one of them.

~Amy Coffman
Painted Moon Ranch

Posted on Monday, May 8, 2000 - 1:32 pm:

Michelle-
Bring your pony home and find someone else, try to find someone who will come to your place to train her.
My boyfriend has a Quarter filly he took to a "trainer" for western pleasure training. He was supposed to be "good". She was there for 5 months. She was locked in a stall and never let out, she was beaten for cribbing, hardly worked and 300 lbs. under weight. She isn't that big, anyway. She was only 2 when she went over. The HUGE mistake we made was not checking up on her more often since my boyfriend seemed to trust this so-called "trainer".
The last time I went to see her and she could hardly hold herself up from being so malnurished and she was so sad and hurt looking, we got her home RIGHT AWAY! She had no use for people, developed a mean streak and colicked really bad after being home for 2 weeks and actually getting to eat. That was almost a year ago.
She's up to snuff now and beautiful. She still doesn't ride well, but we had to build her strength back up first so that's this years project.
My point is, I fear for your pony, if they aren't working her what else are they NOT doing? If they don't have any more interest in her than that, bring her home before they hurt her. I am very leary of trainers now, even though I also know some good ones. When you find another one, check them out good, ask around about the person and pay close attention to how the other horses look. Watch that person work a horse or two and see how they interact with them. Pay several visits to the stable and don't always call ahead, surprise them at different times. Look at the stalls and where the feed and bedding is, ask yourself how clean things are and kept. Also, watch how other horses react to that trainer, they will tell you alot. Last thing I can think of, get receipts for EVERYTHING and get a clear agreement (verbal or written) in advance as to what you can expect for you money. Training is not cheap and I think anyone who has ever hired a trainer will agree that you need to make sure your getting what you pay for.
Check into the verbal agreement laws in your area, most of the time, that's enough to file a small claims suit when someone has broken their part of the agreement and you may be able to get back the money you have spent for your pony. Good luck and let me know how things turn out. I tried to get my boyfriend to sue his trainer for neglect and abuse plus breach of contract (she couldn't even balance the weight of a person on her after 5 months of "training"), he wouldn't do it. If it were my filly, I would have.

Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2000 - 9:19 pm:

I am sorry for your experiences but PLEASE use written agreements stipulating the expectations of the parties and INCLUDE a mediation/arbitration clause.

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 27, 2000 - 4:08 pm:

I am also in the process of having my 3-year old colt started. The terms of our agreement, with a well-respected trainer, is that the colt will be considred 'GREEN BROKE' when returned after about 40-days. And that any additional training will be an additional cost.

But, after reading some of your post, I wounder if I can really define what 'GREEN BROKE' means. To me, a horse is green-broke if the horse can be ridden, knows how to turn, back up,stand,walk, trot,lope and is reasonably safe and sane.

To me, that is all that I am after at this time and I hope to finish the rest.

Any thoughts?

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 27, 2000 - 7:30 pm:

David,

Your understanding of greenbroke is correct. From what I understand a horse that has less than 300 hours under saddle is green. With 40 days of training your horse should be a master at the tasks you listed above.

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 28, 2000 - 10:14 am:

Hi David,

I always find it useful to be specific in defining terms like "green broke". No reputable trainer will object to a question about what exactly green broke means to him. That way there is less liklihood of misunderstanding and all that would fall out of it (e.g., anger, resentment, etc.,).

Good luck in this exciting time.

Teresa

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 28, 2000 - 2:59 pm:

Hi David:

I show Quarter Horses and been with several trainers through the years due to my limited time to ride. My best advice would be to do your homework before you send the horse for training. Find out about that particular trainer's reputation. Look at other horses that are currently in training or find horses they have worked with in the past. Speak to other customers of that trainer. Cover excatly what you expect with the trainer and what he or she thinks they can accomplish in 90 days. 3 months is not a lot of time to get much done on a young horse I would not expect any miracles! I've seen young horses rushed and they either end up lame or they lose it mentally. Each horse is an individual. Some learn quickly and others need more time because of phyiscal or mental immaturity. Reevaluate your horse's progress on a weekly or monthly basis. Horse trainers are a dime a dozen and you don't need any special training to call yourself one. Weeding out the good ones from bad the takes some work. Learn from each bad experience and consider yourself a little smarter and move on! Good luck

Kathy

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 28, 2000 - 4:32 pm:

Hi all,

Just wanted to chime in and agree with Kathy's statements, especially regarding doing your homework. Make certain that you've spent some time at the trainer's before taking your horse, watching him or her actually handling/riding some horses. Reputation is not always a sufficient indicator--and you'll want to make sure that the rep isn't being generated largely by the trainer himself. Both I and a good friend of mine had horrendous experiences sending horses to (two different) trainers who convinced us of their "natural horsemanship" skills. These were guys in two different towns who conducted roundpen clinics on a regional level, but we didn't actually see either of them work; in fact, we both relied to a frightening degree on the trainers' own assessments of their skills, and our poor horses paid the price. It took me about six months to sort out the problems caused by a one-month stay; my friend is still trying to get things right with her horse years later. So if anything at all about the handling of the horses or the boarding situation makes you uneasy, pay attention to those feelings.

I'd also agree with Kathy's comments on the 90-day timeframe, although you had said 40 days unless that's a misprint. IMO, 40 days is a pretty short timeframe for something as important as your horse's foundation. I used to do "one-week wonders" using the roundpen, but that no longer appeals to me because there's a certain quality that you lose, and those first rides especially should never be stressful.

Whichever you decide to do, I would make sure that you spell out in writing what criteria you have in mind when you say "green-broke", knowing that many of them are going to be subjective.

Good luck and have fun!
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