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Discussion on Horse sold without permission
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Posted on Friday, Jun 30, 2000 - 4:20 pm:
At the end of March 2000 I sent my horse from Canada with a Canadian agent to North Carolina to be sold. We had a contract which specified that I was to be notified of all offers. The contract did not specify a base price although we had verbally discussed a price that I would be happy with. The agent was incurring the costs upfront to be reimbursed once the horse was sold. The agent's daughter was attending college in NC and was working part time for a woman at a farm near the school. Their deal was that she would work in exchange for 2 stalls. My horse and my agent's horse were to be stabled in the 2 stalls that she was working for.
The woman who was boarding the horse was also acting as an agent in finding potential buyers and setting up appointments although this was not disclosed to me until just before my horse was sold. I never spoke with this woman until after the sale of my horse at which time she refused to tell me who the buyers were.
As it was, my horse was sold and removed form the property before I was given a chance to consent to the sale. My agent forwarded an e-mail to me from the woman who I thought was boarding him, saying that he had been sold for $1000. When I received a cheque in the mail, it was for $571. She deducted board expenses which should have been paid to my agent and her daughter considering that she had worked for the stall. She also deducted a 15% commission which I thought was not fair since we had never discussed any commission for her from me directly. My understanding was that the commission went to my agent who would then share with any other agents involved. My horse was insured for $8000 Canadian which is about $5300 USD.
I received no bill of sale. The cheque that I received has been placed in trust with a layer and I notified the woman of that.
At the time that my horse was sold, my agent's daughter realized that she had lost his coggins papers so they were not transfered with the horse. I have reported the woman who sold my horse to the NC Department of Agriculture and they are investigating her for this and for not being a licensed dealer. The investigation is going very slowely since the woman is not providing any information. She did send me an e-mail saying that if I sent her a copy of my copy of the coggins (that I thankfully kept) she would tell me where my horse was. I don't trust her and think that it should be the other way around. She should provide me with contact info that checks out and then I might give her the coggins paper. It might help to prevent her from being fined by the NCDA so that is why she wants it so badly.
I have spoken with several people and most feel that she is hiding the buyers because she got a lot more money for him that she is telling me. If I find that this is the case, what steps should I take? If anyone had any ideas or suggestions, I would love to hear them. Thanks!
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Posted on Friday, Jun 30, 2000 - 7:39 pm:
Boy howdy! is your horse registerd? and did they
have signed papers? I think your right to suspect
something. Quite frankly I can't see why they
would bother shipping a $1000 horse that far,
there are plenty of horses in the states for that
kind of money. I think they probably figured that
there is little you can do from there if they
pocket a couple grand on the side,... I say GO GET
'EM! Besides I would remind her that if she has
nothing to hide then she should have no problem
with you talking to the buyers. If you still feel
uncomfortable I would contact the local law
enforcement agency and the breed registry to void
the registration transfer. If you really think she
pocketed a lot then consider a trip down to sue
her in small claims court for violating the
written agreement.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.....
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 1, 2000 - 3:59 pm:
That's just awful! All I can say is definitly don't send her a copy of the coggins.
~b
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Posted on Friday, Jul 7, 2000 - 11:50 am:
Emily - to answer your question, the horse is registered and tattooed. I have the original Jockey Club papers. I contacted the Jockey Club incase anyone might try to obtain replacement papers. Not likely to happen since it was a gelding. I also contacted the local county sheriff's office to see if there was anyway that they might investigate it as a criminal offense. I though that they might be able to get a copy of the cheque to see who it had been written from and for how much. No go, they told me that it was a civil matter. Meanwhile the NC Department of Agriculture has continued their investigation. They were following up on some leads and someone apparently gave them the name of the buyer. I just found this out 2 days ago. They will have to wrap up their investigation before they can give me the name. I just pray that the buyer will be willing to talk to me. Hopefully they will be interested enough in his papers, pedigree and race history to give me the into that I am looking for.
I'll have to post another update when I find out more.
This raises another question. Does anyone have any other ideas about how I might be able to get more money if I find out that the buyer paid a lot more than what I was told?
Barbara - I thought about it and you are right, the coggins is staying right here with me!
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Posted on Friday, Jul 7, 2000 - 12:41 pm:
To get the money due to you I believe you would
have to sue the agent in Civil court. If the buyer
bought in good faith I don't think you have any
recourse against them. Now the agent.... I say
string them up!
-Emil
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 8, 2000 - 2:40 pm:
Dear Karen,
I am so sorry about what has happened. I was just curious ... You mentioned that you had a contractual arrangement with the first agent. Did you have the same contractual arrangement with the woman? If you did and it had the same wording regarding notification or if you had no contract at all, my first thought would be to wonder if the sale was even valid. Secondly, what does the first agent think of all this? It sounds like you and the first agent would have a common interest in sorting this thing out. Had you had any kind of discussion with this woman regarding price for the horse? The whole thing smells rotten to me too.
I agree with everyone's comments to hang onto whatever papers you have left. Also, that if the purchase was made in good faith and the sale is legal, you probably don't have any recourse against the buyers.
Keep us posted!
Nancy
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 19, 2000 - 7:07 pm:
UPDATE!
Well it took me 3 months, but I found the person who bought my horse. Rather, I know who it is and where they are. And the woman who sold him said I'd never find him! Unfortunately I did a little sleuthing and learned that the girl who bought my horse usually buys horses for re-sale. I know that this is the way the horse industry works, and there is nothing wrong with that except that the woman who sold him told me that "he went to an excellent, private home and owner who understand the soundness issue...rode him very well...and will papmer him to death!"
This unfortunately probably means that she did not pay much more than $1000 for him. At least that is what they told me they sold him for.
The NC Department of Agriculture is getting close to wrapping up their investigations on the woman who sold him and they are the ones who gave me the name of the buyer. At one point, the woman who sold him told them that she had 8 pages of e-mails from my agent telling her to sell or trade the horse. I just received a copy of these today and have noted that my agent did not share all her communications with me. There is one where she tells the woman to take the commission, which I had never authorized. Maybe I should just sue my agent after all. She is a lot closer to home!
She also admits to searching for the melanomas before taking the horse with her. She says the contract we had was null and void when she got to NC with my horse and realized that he had melanomas. She never told me this verbally or in writing. I don't think that the contract was null or void.
If anyone has any thoughts, I'd love to hear them.
Karin
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 20, 2000 - 11:13 am:
I would SOOOooooo be sueing the origional agent!!!! As well I would be contacting the purchaser emmediatly to make them aware of the situation and find out what she was told.
Keep us updated.....
Emily
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 20, 2000 - 4:27 pm:
Karen-
Whatta mess! Keep after it and let us know what goes on. Are you trying to get the horse back?
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Karin Wojcik |
Posted on Friday, Jul 21, 2000 - 4:56 pm:
I guess I'm hesitant to contact the purchaser incase she sells him quickly and then I lose track of him again. I'm getting the feeling she bought him for re-sale anyway so she will probably be trying to sell him pretty soon.
If I showed up on her doorstep with his papers and a law officer, what would happen? Would I be able to repossess my 'stolen' property?
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