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Posted on Monday, Jul 17, 2000 - 7:02 pm:

hi maybe you can help me!
I purchased a horse one year ago.
she came with some rain rot and a little weak.
I was informed by the middle man that she was out in pasture for three months (why she looked like she did). I was told she was a equtation horsde and has shown all over in many major rated shows.
to make a long story short- the rain rot got worse and i started noticing some other symptoms as time went on. she ended up with a severe systemic infection from a tiny cut. I put two and two together and had the vet check out diseases.
Wwell she cam back with cushings and hypothyroid. I did not find ou until 8 months after purchase.
well it costs me around 175.00 a month for meds.
i suffer with that and now a new blow just hiot me.
i sold my other horse to buy her so my daughter could go to the rated shows. well we found out she can not show at arted shows the med is on the forbidden list
now i am angry ( i coulsd of kept my other horse)
i feel they new she had this and medicated her up until a month or so before we bought her.
can i go after them?
what are my choices?
p.s. they never gave me a coggins ( probaly didn't want me to have the vets name)
I would appreciate your help
carol

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 18, 2000 - 1:14 pm:

Carol,

Did you receive a bill of sale? What did it say?

Did the dealer make any verbal promises about the horse and did someone else witness this?

Did you pay for a vet to do a pre-purchase exam?

What makes you think they tried to hide the mare's condition? Have you tried to contact them and negotiate a return or reimbursement?

Unfortunately, as unhappy as this situation sounds, I really don't think there is much that can be done unless some of the questions above can be answered in your favor.

Perhaps someone else with more of a legal background will have an opinion?

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 18, 2000 - 7:08 pm:

christine,
hi, thanks for answering.
its a tough situation
the bill of sale says nothing except they sold me a warmblood mare
they told me and in ffront of my trainer that this horse will take my daughter to the rated shows. she has been there, done it etc. (they new that was my only reason to sell my QH and buy this warmblood mix.
it is also very obvious that she has been a very competitive horse for a long time.
the reason i think they hid it is b/c when i bought her her symptoms weren't that bad . every week her rain rot gopt worse and we tried to take care of it many ways. when we looked back we noticed other symptoms which we ignored (not thinking they all went together)
it takes a long time to stabilize a cushings horse and without meds. they progress. it would have been impossible for this horse to have the mild rain rot sdhe came with for a lenghty time. i now how quick it progressed and if she was out in pasture three months she would have been bad, plus they shaved her and 4 weeks later i shaved her again. cushings horses have long curly hair.
yes, i did vet check, but they were good to hide this, we suspected nothing and routine bloodwork does not show it, plus the meds are out of the system in 24 hours.
what do you think?
i plan to send a letter to the middle man and try to get to the original owner
does this sound worth going after
(my tarainer is of no help, sad, she loves the horse and says ignore it, but shes not paying the bills and i will not show her illegally)
carol

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 19, 2000 - 12:35 am:

Hey Carol
How old is this horse? What tests did your vet run to diagnose Cushings? What about the hypothyroidism? I know this has strained you financially, but I don't know if you will get anywhere in the court system. Usually this just ends up draining your pocket book more.

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 19, 2000 - 12:37 am:

Carol
Also, you should read Dr.O's article on Cushings and Hypothyroidism. Click on Endocrine.

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 19, 2000 - 11:48 am:

Carol,

In my heart of hearts, I think you are stuck. The middle man could have honestly not known of the horse's condition (or could plead that) and he allowed the horse to be vetted.

But, if you have a vet that will testify on your behalf (condition must have been known, etc.) and a trainer that will testify about the verbal promises, then there may be something in your favor.

Usually in a dispute situation, you need a clear goal of what you think is a fair settlement.

In this case, would you 1) expect to return the horse and receive full reimbursement of purchase prices? Would you 2) expect reimbursement for the medical expenses? 3) For the injury suffered by selling a healthy horse when you shouldn't have?

Then, depending on the value to you of each item, you may feel it is worth engaging a lawyer to represent you (more sunk costs).

I can't make the judgement call for you. Perhaps engaging a lawyer for an honest assessment, or contacting Gerald's organization (he posts here regularly) for an "equine dispute mediation" assessment may be worthwhile.

Let us know what you decide. Oh and do check out Dr. O's article. Thyroid problems are evidently quite rare - you may want a 2nd assessment of her health ...

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 19, 2000 - 12:13 pm:

Carol,

One other thought. You might consult with the AHSA re the specific drug. Many forbidden drugs need only to be "declared" for the competition (depends on drug and discipline). In other situations, depending on the drug, you can not give it to the horse for some period around the competition and then begin again. Don't stop/start without consulting your vet, though.

All this is dependent on the specific drug, condition, how long it stays in the horse, competition discipline, etc. But it is quite possible your horse can be used for the purpose you bought her for.

If your show organization is the AHSA, they have a web site - https://www.ahsa.org/ The phone number for the AHSA Drugs and Medications Office at (800) MED-AHSA. They can help you determine what to do.

Hope this helps.
Chris

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 19, 2000 - 8:03 pm:

hi bridgett and chris,
thanks alot for you imputs, a lot of good suggestions (some i have already checked)
it is very frustrating and i may not win but i gota try.
first she is 14 (they said 10 but again no coggins to prove)
she was diagnosed properly with cushings and hypothyroid (i read the articles and my vet did it right)
since on the meds a totally different horse
she had rainrot really bad 6 months, and three weeks on the med totally gone, she doesnt pee every hour anymore and i havent clipped her in months she also got very ill from a small sore before she was on meds. the thyroid just has made her brighter, moving, her coat, and her eyes, 9and she is not longing at everyone anymore (they called her the witch) now every one loves her.
i did check with the asha they sent me the rule book cytoheptadine is banned and must not be in her system when she gets to the show. for her to go 4-5 days without meds qwould ber like starting all over (its like a diabetic not taking insulin for 4 days and the starting again) it would be a process to stabilize her again( plus she is not totally stabilized yet (still on high doses)

Posted on Thursday, Jul 20, 2000 - 1:09 pm:

Hi, Carol. I'm at least glad for the horse that she is feeling better.

Playing devil's advocate here, I would prepare a defense for the middle man on the following basis: The horse was vetted and the age discrepancy was not found (I think the Galvane's groove would have been absent at age 10 and visible at age 14), and if that pre-purchase vet "missed" her illness, it is perfectly possible the middle man "missed" it too as he/she is not an equine health professional.

Although civil court has a smaller burden of proof to win over a defendant, (as opposed to "beyond a reasonable doubt" in criminal cases) I would bet the defense would be "well the vet didn't find it and he/she is a professional. Poor Mr./Ms. so and so is a victim, too, from court costs, business reputation, yada, yada."

I am sorry the drug stuff didn't work out in this case. I know, for example, small doses of bute are allowed if you file a drug report in dressage. I'd hoped something similar was okay in your situation. Sometimes they are really strict on drugs they consider "masking" ones, so maybe this is one.

Is the horse papered? Does the vet feel her condition heritable? If not, has she ever been bred? Could she carry a foal while being medicated? I was considering whether you could cut your losses and sell her as a brood mare, ethically.

Good luck what what you decide to do. Keep good records of all communications - better yet, a letter on lawyer's stationary is often enough to move things along.

Let us know if anything is settled.
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