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Discussion on Selling a horse with soundness issues
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New Member:
Starda01
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Posted on Monday, Jul 31, 2006 - 12:43 pm:
Hello All,
I'm not new to this board exactly, but I've not posted much either, I guess you'd call me a lurker .
But I have a horse, a lovely old fellow to me, an Appendix QH, who's 16-17 yrs old (age cannot be exactly determined as he has no papers). He's in very good condition healthwise, no stable vices, has had some very good training in the past, Western pleasure I think, but I ride English, hunter seat. Anyway, he can go either way. Ever since I"ve had the horse, though, he has had lameness issues of one sort or another. Unfortunately, I have not had the money to pursue xrays, etc, or other diagnostics that would tell a clearer story of his problems. So I rely on sight and feel and how he is going. We've recently come back to working after a long lay off for what I think was a front suspensory tendon strain, and he's going as well as I've seen him go for a long time. Given his age, he's probably got some arthitis, and one vet mentioned possible navicular, and what I believe is an old injury. But, over the past year, we've got him shod with a wedge and widened out his heels as well as extended his shoes back to give the heels support on both front and rear. His feet seem better now that they had been at any other time. I gave him time off and light exercise to deal with the suspensory problems and alternately wrapped him with politices, gave bute when necessary and just gave it time. Seems to have worked so far, as he's doing well without any bute now. However, this horse will never be 100% sound, I knew this, and for my purposes I thought he'd be sound enough. He does jump well, but obviously I'm not jumping him, we're sticking to the flatwork for now.
But as money has always been an issue for me, I have been toying with selling my old man. I got him for around $1,100 dollars bc he wasn't working out as a school horse, as his temperament is alittle hot for it. He's a horse that needs to connect with a person, and he and I connected.
So my question is, I know that he won't fetch a high price, but I would like to know how any of you have faired trying to sell a horse with similar issues to what I am describing?
Thanks,
Sara
I post a pic of him here
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, Jul 31, 2006 - 2:35 pm:
Sara,
I am in the same spot as you, so glad you posted the question. My horse is a 4 yr old, hasn't been rode yet, and I know his lameness is from being kicked. Saw it happen, saw the limping start and it's been on and off again for the last 2 years.
My plans are to sell him "as is"....and let the prospective buyer know that he may only be sound for light trail riding, and possibly cost money to keep around. (but, so far, joint supplements, bute and such hasn't made any difference)
He's a nice looking ol' boy!!
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Monday, Jul 31, 2006 - 2:43 pm:
Sara in your case I would be looking for a good home to place him in.. not expecting any money for him at all.. I think finding a good / loving home would be enough of a reward for him.. He is getting up there in age.. and he is not sound.. Is he comfortable for light trail riding? And is his temperament as such that he can be taken on trails..?? I feel you really can't ask money for a horse that is not sound and will cost money to just keep him moving.. pads/ corrective shoeing etc.. Good luck, this is always a difficult position to be in..
Angie, do you know exactly why the kick has made your horse lame>>?? It might help to know what you are dealing with to pass on to someone else.. Its a chance taking on a lame horse ...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Jojo15
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Posted on Monday, Jul 31, 2006 - 3:02 pm:
None of the past training matters much in this situation. with no papers, can't be bred, and not knowing his true age, lawn ornament is prolly what you are going to be offered. and that is not going to fetch you much money.
Best bet is find him a nice home for free and cut your losses. OR, try not to sell for anything less than what they get at slaughter to keep him out of there. But, Its hard to find a person willing to take on the big question mark. AND pay for it...
Can you at least get some x rays to say here is the problem? 17 years old is not old. but true about arthritis. And who is going to want a possible navicular horse. That in itself is a money burner... On the upside, maybe the Hot-issue is feed related? and finding a farm that lets him be a horse might turn it all around.
I went thru similar. And came to the conclusion it was me..
I had a gorgeous TB... but too high maintenance for my life, and home. and my inexperience handling one. and she just didn't like me, and i still had problems selling since she wasn't a horse for all. Even tho her pedigree was impeccable, and she could have been a broodmare. i kept saying experienced riders only. Because i knew how smart she was. That put us in a category. I ended up giving her away to a boys ranch. letting them decide what next to do with her, with their evaluations. and took a loss on her. we on the other hand NEVER gelled. And i so wanted her to go to a working stable. But, there are too many "good" horses and the market is lopsided.. too many horses to choose from.
So, unless you know what is wrong with her. And have x-rays to prove it. Than i don't think your going to get much if any money for her.
Sorry to be such a pill... but from what i read people all over are having such hard times selling perfect horses...
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Monday, Jul 31, 2006 - 5:19 pm:
Sara, I agree with the above posters that you need to find this horse a home and forget about money for him.
You can contact a rescue group to see if they can place him. You would keep him at your place until they find a suitable owner. The nice thing is that a reputable rescue will "keep an eye on him" for you. They prohibit selling the horse, or sending them to slaughter, and most will take him back to find a new owner if the situation doesn't work out. Be warned, though, they are overburdened with nice horses just like yours, and there are limited homes for these poor guys.
Most horses that end up at slaughter are nice riding horses that aren't worth putting lots of vet care into. People keep selling them down the line until they finally go to the auction.
If you can't spend the money on finding out if he will ever be sound, you need to realize that the next owner probably won't either. The horse deserves better.
I hate to bring it up, but if you can't find a suitable home for him, it might be kinder to suggest euthanasia.
Best of luck.
Erika
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, Jul 31, 2006 - 6:41 pm:
Erika,
You said exactly what I fear. Once a horse leaves you, you have no clue as to what happens to him/her.
I keep trying to explain this to my husband but he figures "gone is gone" and of course it makes sense to cut your losses and quit putting money into a pasture ornament. I mean, heck, I can buy a big sculpture to sit in the yard if I just want a horse to look at!!!
Frustrating in my case is not knowing what exactly is wrong, and hubby won't allow me to put money out to find out. As Jojo said, there are so many horses out there........and they are not selling like hotcakes right now.
Also, my guy is sound for weeks/months at a time. Then I start working him, and usaully he goes into a bucking fit (he's a challenge) and then the lameness is back.
Hard choices to make. Hard times to deal with. Heat, DrOught, poor quality hay this year.
There is no easy answer for sure.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Monday, Jul 31, 2006 - 6:52 pm:
God bless you both, Sara and Angie. You obviously want the best for your horses. I hope you find the perfect home for them.
Erika
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Member:
Sonoita
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 10:49 am:
Maybe if you found a rescue that would take him they might have a horse you could switch with. I know someone who did that and it worked out great. Just a thought.
Happy Trails,
Wanda
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New Member:
Starda01
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 6:15 pm:
Thanks everyone, for your input. However, one thing I need to make clear, my Jimi isn't that lame. I have been riding him every day for the past month, walk, trot, and canter, and he's been going well, without the need of bute. The tendons look as tight as they are probably going to get. He has the arthritis, the ailments of a horse his age. As for the navicular, well, I don't know for sure he has it, its possible, but the trainer at my barn doesn't seem to think so. Its just possible that he'd gotten to a place where he needed someone to sort him out. I have had alot of experience with horses growing up but I hadn't been working with horses for 30 years. I got back into it through my daughter, the one riding him in the photo, and he just sort of "fell" into my lap.
But, having said all that, I suspect that something happened to him, an accident perhaps. I say this bc he is missing teeth on one side of his mouth, and he's got something going on with his hip on that same side, all his problem areas are on the same side. Therefore, I say, he'll never be 100%, but he is quite sound enough for light use, and perhaps even a little jumping if we take care. He's in no way a candidate for euthanasia. He seems to be just fine on Equine Senior feed, a joint supplement, proper shoeing, and exercise, what you'd give any horse. He hasn't really cost me any more than normal upkeep. I'd like to have the xrays and proper diagnostics done to know what we're dealing with, but at the moment, the things I've done so far, low tech as they might be, seem to have worked ok.
Also, let me disabuse all of the idea that I would make any money from him. What I'm trying to do is explore options. In fact, I really don't want to sell him, he is fun to ride, and my daughter would be devastated. But costs keep going up and something's got to give somewhere.
What I will most likely do with him, should lameness bc too much of an issue, is to retire him to my sister's farm in Tenn.
I do know of some other horses that also can't be considered 100% and yet people have bought them, bc the horse was still in good enough shape for their purposes. So that was what was running through my mind.
Sara
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Member:
Starda01
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 6:32 pm:
Angie-
What a shame for such a young horse. Can you convince your husband that you need some xrays to get a buyer for him?
The advantage you might have, though, is his age. Someone might think it worthwhile to sort out a younger horse. As has been suggested here, having the xrays to show a prospective new owner just what they're getting, and letting them weigh the options, may work to your advantage.
Sara
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Member:
Starda01
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 6:34 pm:
Jojo-
Where in Florida are you? I am also in Florida, in Miami.
Sara
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Member:
Jojo15
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 8:53 pm:
hey Tara, i'm in west palm beach. I know miami.. well. Lived there for years. LIved in the gables and Chose to board in Davie, though. The cost of boarding in miami is ridiculous. And some that were nasty.. Miami springs comes to mind...Doral... miller road areas... and redlands, thats it for boarding. YUCK! I moved to West palm area 4 years ago... love it...
I wanted to address something to all who posted on this. Gone is gone thing... A very true statement. And one i struggled with for a longgggggg time. I had purchased a mare off the track. and had her for 8 long years. I never should have bought her. And in the end i gave her away. And never looked back. yet always think about her. so in a way i guess i do... I am not one to buy and sell animals. Once they are here they are here for life. But, when it was clear i was too afraid to ride her. 5 years on pasture paying board, and her not doing a darn thing. bringing her here to my paltry acre and half, her not fitting in there either. It became obvious what had to be done. It took me 8 years of NOT making a decision. I think it was worse for me to do that, than be heartless ASAP. So if you do have this, take my lesson learned and do it now.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 9:11 pm:
All, but Sara in particular, I hope I didn't sound too harsh when I reluctantly mentioned euthanasia. Your horse is adorable and obviously well cared for. I just want so much to keep people aware that compromised horses seldom get the right care after being sold a few times.
When real horse lovers get a horse, and have it for a while, we grow a bond. We would no sooner neglect him than we would a child. Problem is, there are people out there who are willing to use a horse up short term--especially if they don't cost much. Then they often have a very sad and unfair end.
Sara, I commend you for the thought you have given this issue--far more than a lot of owners would. I have no doubt that your nice horse will fare well, whatever your decision.
Take care,
ERika
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 9:31 pm:
BTW, I have one of these precious horses myself. Timmy is well into his thirties, no teeth left,weird clubby feet--no doubt my most high maintenance horse. But he is worth his weight in gold. You can put anyone on him, do anything with him, he's a perfect gentleman.
I "inherited" him about ten years ago because he was too old to move West with my dear friend and neighbor of twenty years. The friend has since passed on, but Timmy is still here to remind me of our good times over the fence. I watched this horse age right along with the rest of us humans. He will be here until the end. 
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 1, 2006 - 10:14 pm:
Sara,
I think you will find a good home for your horse if selling him is what you have to do. He doesn't sound that high maintenance to me!!
I actually did have a buyer for my guy, but I wasn't sure about the person, her brood of kids, (9 of them) her idea of a payment plan, plus she wanted to keep him at my place yet. No,NO, and Definetly NOT!!
Anyhoo, last night he went running and kicking up his heels, no lameness at all. So, maybe, just maybe the latest supplement is working?? Dare I hope?
Jojo,
my husband would agree with you and deep down I know he is right. It costs just as much (0r more) to feed an unsound horse as it does a sound horse. Or put another way, one you enjoy vs one that is more work than fun.
Have to quit thinking with my heart.
But as Erika says, what happens after being sold a few times. I know people who keep horses that should be put down, and others who put down horses that have any little problem. Kinda of disposable horses to them.
Btw, Erika, I like the looks of your old guy!
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 9:43 am:
When I had soundness issues with my first horse, a TB, it took a long time, but I did find him a suitable home. However, I can't do the "gone is gone" thing. I made the new owner sign a fairly specific contract, ensuring that the horse would receive proper care, that I had right of first refusal should they not want him any longer and that if they could no longer give him proper care, he must be humanely destroyed. I could not bear the thought of him going from owner to owner and eventually sold off for slaughter so I did everything I could think of to prevent it. He's been with the same people for about 4 years, is well cared for and much loved.
You never know, someone near you may just be looking for an attractive pasture mate for another horse or for a horse that they can just do light work on - you never know until you try.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 10:20 am:
Sara,
I belong to a wonderful email network of horse lovers. Sold my last horse in hours of posting there. Granted, most are in the Northeast, but many do go to Florida for hunting or showing.
If you are interested I can put an ad of your nice horse on the network and see what happens.
The nice thing is they are all involved horse people with big email networks. I got more calls for the horse from that than any of the other ads I actually paid for. And from a larger area, too.
Let me know via this thread if it is of interest to you and we can exchange emails if you want to post an ad. I admire your honesty, and I do think your horse has plenty of useful life for the right owner!
Erika
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Member:
Starda01
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 1:37 pm:
Erika
I think you're idea is a good one, bc he does have a useful life left. He won't be an eventer, but that doesn't mean he can't be a pleasure horse. As yet I haven't decided to do anything but keep the status quo for a bit. But I would like the information in case I do decide to try to find him a new owner. I can be reached at the email listed in my profile. Thanks!
Sara
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Member:
Starda01
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 1:38 pm:
Erika-
BTW, you're old fella looks great in that picture.
Sara
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Member:
Starda01
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 1:46 pm:
Fran-
I think you've hit the nail on the head. Its finding the right person and setting some conditions to the transfer of ownership. I feel that with the right care, ie, people that will not ride him into the ground, he should have plenty more useful years ahead. If I continue on with him, I feel like he'll stay sound enough for riding for many years, but I am careful with him. Not that I treat him like he'll break, but I don't try to do things I know will compromise his soundness, like a lot of jumping.
Your response has given me a lot of confidence.
Sara
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Member:
Starda01
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 2:21 pm:
Jojo-
I see from your profile you are in an art related field too. I have degrees in both Studio ARt and in Architecture. I checked out your blog and I love your work, I also left you a comment about the blue-eyed snake.
Yes, its difficult to find a good boarding situation around here, the land is scarce, and good boarding costs. But I am stuck here for the time being. I think that fact was something that really discouraged me from getting back into horses for quite a long time.
Sara
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Member:
Jojo15
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 8:19 pm:
Angie,
don't get me wrong, i struggled for quite a few years. 3 on pasture. 1 here at home..before coming to realize i would never the get the money invested out. ever. and i was just wasting the horse... she couldn't be a lawn ornament not yet. but timing is everything. firstly because i wasted alot of time in keeping her, or thinking i would keep her forever. when in fact at 5 or 7 she might have been sold for alot. But at 12 or 14 she was not trained enough for that age... odd..so she was n't as saleable.
Sara, art is a passion. But lost alot of it when i went into advertising...thank you for the compliment...I see you have a photo blog too. i only saw a few, but what i did see shows great talent.. i love artists...and looking at their stuff. going to look more later...I started to take up pottery and painting and photography again, now that i work for myself... and of course much happier to boot, which opens that area of the brain up again...woohoo..
that darn snake scared the heck out of me... i thought it was the oddest thing. But so cool... i love taking pics of the animals i find in the yard...
if you don't feel the need to rush on the horse, follow your instincts. Sometimes i forget that. And although i did in my circumstance i felt i was waffling, but maybe i wasn't. (lol, see what i mean?) Maybe it was just that time for her to go to the boys ranch...
So where do you stable? miami lakes? or closer to davie? I used to drive from South beach in the beginning to Davie. Then Gables to Davie. Then i just moved to Davie (townhome with stalls) and commuted to Miami.. ugh.. Then that killed me, so i just flatout moved so i could have my horse in my backyard, and quit my job ready to work at walmart at that point..grin...the things we do for our love of horses...
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Member:
Vrich
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 10:08 pm:
I haven't really followed this post and just caught up a little when I went back and scanned it. I just have to say I was startled and a little dismayed that your "Old Man" is 16 or 17! Call me naive but he looks wonderful and I would in no way consider a horse that age elderly. My OTTB is 17 and perfect and I expect he will continue to be for many years to come. So odd how different perspectives are among members of the board.
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Member:
Starda01
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 11:09 pm:
Lol Val-
He's not ancient! He's somewhere between 15 and 20, but he was sold to me last year as a 15yr old, so that's what I'm sticking with! I call him my "old guy" with a great deal of affection.
Sara
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Member:
Starda01
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 3, 2006 - 11:17 pm:
Jojo-
Thanks for the compliment. Yes, art is a passion, and everyone loves a starving artist, don't they? That's why we get paid the little bucks. 
I am stabled in Horse Country, off Miller Drive. Its a very nice barn, so I count myself lucky he's in a good barn this hurricane season. Last year the barn he was in lost its roof twice.
I used to work in the Gables, but I haven't worked much since my 2nd child was born. I'm now at the point where I need to either sell a lot of paintings or get a job!
Sara
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